ELCS due to not wanting to have vaginal pain AFTER birth?

[Dexter77]

I’m currently deciding between an ELCS and a VB with epidural. I don’t believe in enduring pain that’s unnecessary and always assumed I’d have an ELCS as I think it’s a great and safe option, but now wonder whether the latter would be preferable. What’s holding me back from attempting VB is the prospect of weeks/months of pain in vaginal area after birth, as well as the fact that postnatal aftercare of birth injuries seems to be woefully inadequate in the UK with long waiting times and insufficient support.

I’d be fine with temporary pain during birth but find the prospect of having vaginal pain for so long totally unacceptable - not even to mention other potential complications such as prolapse and incontinence.
I suppose I’m asking whether it’ll be a given to have vaginal/perineal pain AFTER the birth with VB of normal sized babies (no reason to assume mine will be big).
Keen also to hear from women who had a pain free birth but pain afterwards and how they found it.

PS: And yes, I know there’ll be pain from having an ELCS after birth, but I just know I’ll cope better with having pain in abdomen than in genital area.

@RandomCatGenerator

Ah that’s interesting *@Moonbabysmum*. And logical too! In the hospital I gave birth in it was standard practice to encourage sleep on the table as you were drowsy from the anaesthetic anyway. But I am not in the UK so maybe it isn’t standard practice UK practice.

That’s very interesting @RandomCatGenerator I will ask about that.

Stitches are a given though with CS, and I also had piles after too.

I'm referring to the constipation as it's hard to push when you have a big fresh wound on your tummy.

I'm just saying you don't want a VB due to vaginal pain, I along with lots of others had vaginal pain due to the CS / pregnancy.

It's down to luck either way you go.

Tbh its luck of the draw

@Dexter77 I just realised you replied to my message, sorry.

So my first birth (vaginal delivery) was fast, 4.5 hours, I had the waterbirth I wanted but it was very hands off with regards to the midwife. I wasn't really listening to my body and pushing at all the wrong times. Hence why I think I ended up with the rectocele prolapse. My bubs was also 8lb 6oz so a fair size too. I think things could have been a lot different for me if I had been offered coached pushing and better pain relief. (I was given pethidine but it made me delerious) personally, I struggled to bond with my DD in the first few weeks, I was in huge pain, couldn't poo for over a week and was crippled with guilt that my DP had to do everything for us. I had my DD during the first lockdown so we had no help whatsoever which obviously made things even more difficult. I have the most incredible bond with her now but it took time.

My section however, best decision I ever made. I was mobilising after 8 hours, given adequate and STRONG pain relief that enabled me to look after my baby properly whilst in the hospital. She was pulled out at 11:06am on the Monday morning, I was discharged at 7pm on the Tuesday evening. Home, showered, dressing off, and in bed soaking up newborn cuddles with my DP and DD. It was magical.
The section itself was a surreal experience. I had very horrific PGP towards the end of my pregnancy and tbh the spinal was a wanted relief from the pain. When it wore off, my PGP had completely dissapeared and I cried. I do think I was incredibly lucky that my section was so straight forward, I had amazing theatre staff on that day and equally amazing aftercare on the ward. All of those aspects can dictate how well your section/recovery will be.
I certainly wouldn't take a the decision to have a section lightly but equally, after my experience I would go for another one without hesitation. I'm having no more babies now though, I am content 😊 x

I had an emergency c section and was totally pain free a week later and walking around the next morning.

I think you'll get people with completely different experiences of both kinds and unfortunately you won't know which end of the spectrum you're at until it's your turn.

@Puisanceel

I had an emergency c section and was totally pain free a week later and walking around the next morning.

I think you'll get people with completely different experiences of both kinds and unfortunately you won't know which end of the spectrum you're at until it's your turn.

Very wise words, these!

@MyGrassIsBrowner so so pleased yours sounds like it was as positive as mine 😊

Thanks everyone for their input, a large range of experiences with many valuable insights.

I often think - have also read some research essays on that - that maternal mindset and expectations about birth play a massive role in what women find traumatising in birth and what they experience as a positive birth.

I can see how women who are terrified of surgery generally might suffer more after a section and view recovery from an episiotomy easier, and vice versa.

I think I have have major trust issues believing what some people say about the benefits of VB when I see how ideologically opposed many people are to elective sections (and even epidurals), totally refusing to accept that they are the safest delivery method for the baby and while not without risks for the mother very safe for her too.

A main factor in why I look at ELCS so favourably is also that this way you are not at the mercy of ideological midwives and doctors during birth who pursue VB at all costs, with maternal health becoming an afterthought. But the fact that my consultant would lead my VB if I opt for one takes at least that away, she would never force things on me during labour I don’t want I think.

Lots to think about still, and ultimately much will be down to luck. Thanks again.

I often think - have also read some research essays on that - that maternal mindset and expectations about birth play a massive role in what women find traumatising in birth and what they experience as a positive birth.

I went in with zero expectations and had a very traumatic time. I don't think I "found" it traumatising either, it WAS traumatising.

99% of the factor in what birth experience you get is luck and nothing else.

@Bluenetbags couldn't agree more it's the most unpredictable thing

@Bluenetbags agree 100% with what you're saying.

My death experience was traumatising for my husband and me. It's not subjective when you lose more than half your blood and it's coming out faster than they can get it in.

I think people like to feel in control and don’t like to be told it’s luck. That’s why you get so many people saying your body is designed for it and knows what to do, which is just so silly.

[quote Chanel05]@Bluenetbags agree 100% with what you're saying.

My death experience was traumatising for my husband and me. It's not subjective when you lose more than half your blood and it's coming out faster than they can get it in. [/quote]
Sorry, I meant near death.

Hi OP

I've had 2 vaginal births both with 2nd degree tears and an ELCS with my third baby. I would take the C Section any day! I had much more energy afterwards, my scar healed within a week and I could walk about within 24 hours, I was drinking in 2 weeks and went for a walk to the park 5 days after he was born! With my vaginal births I really struggled with pain management and going to the toilet, with my second v birth I had an anal fissure for about 6 months which felt like I was pooing razor blades! I know which I'd rather have if we went for a 4th!

I’ve had 2 VBs, first I did have a small tear which required stitches, which is likely to have occurred due to my birthing position (on back in stirrups), however we were discharged before lunch (he was born 7am) and I was in the shops buying some baby things (he came out smaller than expected at 7lbs5) later in the afternoon. I didn’t find the vaginal pain an issue at all and probably the twingiest bit was when the stitches started to tighten as they healed. My pelvic floor I found was weaker than after my second but this was also likely to the ‘purple pushing’ the midwives encouraged me to do. My second was 9lb7 and no vaginal damage whatsoever-and pelvic floor was in a much better state and I attribute both to a better birthing position (on knees, more upright) and less intervention during the labour process. Just gas and air during transition and pushing for that one.

I do believe our bodies are fundamentally made for birthing but modern medicine (as amazing as it is) and intervention often gets in the way of that-obviously intervention has a time and a place but the number of low risk births which become complicated due to intervention is increasing dramatically.

I’ve never commented on a thread before, but felt the need to comment on this one. OP, you seem to be taking from this post only what you want to. I’m a veterinary surgeon with decades of experience and can say with absolute certainty that a ‘routine’ surgery does not make it an easy or safe one. I advise therefore not to use this as part of your reasoning for having an ELCS. Abdominal surgery is huge, it is very risky and the complications that often arise can be very painful and debilitating. I’ve lost count of the amount of surgeries I’ve done over the years, but bitch spays (a very comparable procedure to an ELCS) remain to this day my least favourite. This is despite spays being the most routine thing I do and my most practised operation by a mile.

As a side, I’m due in two months and an ELCS is the last thing I want. Of course, I’m aware that childbirth is completely out of my control, but my first choice is a VB with pain relief (opioid-based) and I’ll go from there and see what happens. Good luck with whatever you choose to do but do not blinker yourself by only hearing the positive ELCS stories and the negative VB ones.

I had pain for months after my VB and pain during sex for years.

I had pain after my c section for around 10 days.

@Catherine709

I’ve never commented on a thread before, but felt the need to comment on this one. OP, you seem to be taking from this post only what you want to. I’m a veterinary surgeon with decades of experience and can say with absolute certainty that a ‘routine’ surgery does not make it an easy or safe one. I advise therefore not to use this as part of your reasoning for having an ELCS. Abdominal surgery is huge, it is very risky and the complications that often arise can be very painful and debilitating. I’ve lost count of the amount of surgeries I’ve done over the years, but bitch spays (a very comparable procedure to an ELCS) remain to this day my least favourite. This is despite spays being the most routine thing I do and my most practised operation by a mile.

As a side, I’m due in two months and an ELCS is the last thing I want. Of course, I’m aware that childbirth is completely out of my control, but my first choice is a VB with pain relief (opioid-based) and I’ll go from there and see what happens. Good luck with whatever you choose to do but do not blinker yourself by only hearing the positive ELCS stories and the negative VB ones.

Sorry what do you know about what I’m taking away from this thread? I am totally dismissing people who claim wholesale an elective c-section is mad and unsafe, correct. Because that’s nonsense. They are INCREDIBLY safe, and statistically actually safer for the baby than a VB. Almost nobody statistically has complications arising from ELCS that are “debilitating”. Why are you spreading such falsehoods?

I am NOT just hearing the positive ELCS stories and the negative VB ones. As I’ve said elsewhere on this thread, I don’t need to be convinced that an ELCS is a good options to deliver, I already am.
I literally started this thread to find reasons that might motivate me to attempt a VB. Some things people have shared here about their successful VBs do make me wonder whether I should, but yes, I am naturally inclined to favour a section for multiple reasons I’ve explained above. None of this means I’m “blinkering” myself.

@Bluenetbags

I often think - have also read some research essays on that - that maternal mindset and expectations about birth play a massive role in what women find traumatising in birth and what they experience as a positive birth.

I went in with zero expectations and had a very traumatic time. I don't think I "found" it traumatising either, it WAS traumatising.

99% of the factor in what birth experience you get is luck and nothing else.

Sure, I can see that @Bluenetbags but as many threads like this one and also various studies show, what one woman finds incredibly traumatic (say a rushed forceps delivery and resulting injuries) another might describe as “fine”.

If you say what you went through was traumatising then it was, but someone else might have found other things traumatic than you did.

What I meant to say with that is we all have very different sensitivities. I for instance find it quite useless to discuss birth with someone who is majorly into natural birth and talks about things such as “positive pain” - I personally don’t think any pain is positive and I don’t want to “grow” under a painful birth if I can have pain relief instead, just as an example.

Really sorry you had such a rough time, and yes agree re the luck. Though I do believe you can help your luck by making some decisions in advance. For instance, if I choose to try for a VB, I will not consent to assisted vaginal delivery, no matter what, because I simply don’t want one. So the hospital would be obliged to perform an EMCS in an emergency, rather than rip out my child with forceps. How that EMCS would then be is luck again, sure.

I had an ELCS for breech presentation. I have a positive attitude towards ELCS, it was a great experience and I will ask for a repeat CS if I have another child. However the pain of recovery was quite severe at first. For the six weeks after the delivery I took regular painkillers- I mean that was when I started to forget to take them because the pain wasn’t bothering me any more. There are women who have much much less pain than I did, I don’t think you can predict how painful your recovery will be. I could do everything I needed to for my baby (I think the baby herself was a BIG painkiller).

I don’t think there are guarantees either way. I remember when they first started cutting during my CS and I thought well this is it, major surgery, I hope there aren’t any complications.

Same ! I've never had baby and will be having elective with any I do have

I've had two EMCS and one ELCS so can't comment on VB but what I can say is that I would opt for the ELCS EVERY TIME if I could rewind!

Main reason being that I attempted VB twice and ended up with EMCS which for me, were horrific. If I could have a straightforward VB then obviously I would choose thy at but you cannot ever guarantee that so in order to avoid risking a EMCS it would be elective every time.

It is major surgery yes but in comparing it to the emergency ones it was almost blissful. Very calm, controlled environment, I got to hold DS as soon as he was born and get skin to skin (didn't get to hold others as I was too poorly first time and baby was too poorly second time so was rushed off).

If you are nervous about VB and birth injuries and have researched c sections (which it seems you have) I would go for the ELCS if I were you.

Crikey OP, calm down. I simply gave my opinion on a thread where you asked for opinions. I know women who have been debilitated by an ELCS, my own mother included, but if you want to dismiss this as a falsehood to make yourself feel better then crack on. You need to accept that sometimes people aren’t going to say what you want to hear, as everybody has differing views on things - life would be very boring if everyone agreed all the time. Grow up a little.

@Catherine709

Crikey OP, calm down. I simply gave my opinion on a thread where you asked for opinions. I know women who have been debilitated by an ELCS, my own mother included, but if you want to dismiss this as a falsehood to make yourself feel better then crack on. You need to accept that sometimes people aren’t going to say what you want to hear, as everybody has differing views on things - life would be very boring if everyone agreed all the time. Grow up a little.

It is YOU who dismissed my opinion, which is that an ELCS is a safe delivery method, before using your - entirely unrelated - medical background to make some highly exaggerated scaremongering claims about the dangers of elective sections. You didn’t just give your opinion, you posted a condescending, patronising comment accusing me of being blinkered and selective in what I am listening to, and you’ve just done it again! Yeah sure, some people have side effects from sections that aren’t great - nobody has ever contested that - shall we now go into „debilitating“ side effects of VBs? I’m not sure why you commented tbh, you had nothing of substance to contribute.

@tedsletterofthelaw

I've had two EMCS and one ELCS so can't comment on VB but what I can say is that I would opt for the ELCS EVERY TIME if I could rewind!

Main reason being that I attempted VB twice and ended up with EMCS which for me, were horrific. If I could have a straightforward VB then obviously I would choose thy at but you cannot ever guarantee that so in order to avoid risking a EMCS it would be elective every time.

It is major surgery yes but in comparing it to the emergency ones it was almost blissful. Very calm, controlled environment, I got to hold DS as soon as he was born and get skin to skin (didn't get to hold others as I was too poorly first time and baby was too poorly second time so was rushed off).

If you are nervous about VB and birth injuries and have researched c sections (which it seems you have) I would go for the ELCS if I were you.

Thanks for sharing, yes this is a big reason for me to potentially opt for an ELCS, to avoid a rushed EMCS. Glad to hear you got instant skin to skin after your section, I still don’t know what my hospital‘s policy is on that, and if it would be facilitated if everything went well.