ELCS due to not wanting to have vaginal pain AFTER birth?

[Dexter77]

I’m currently deciding between an ELCS and a VB with epidural. I don’t believe in enduring pain that’s unnecessary and always assumed I’d have an ELCS as I think it’s a great and safe option, but now wonder whether the latter would be preferable. What’s holding me back from attempting VB is the prospect of weeks/months of pain in vaginal area after birth, as well as the fact that postnatal aftercare of birth injuries seems to be woefully inadequate in the UK with long waiting times and insufficient support.

I’d be fine with temporary pain during birth but find the prospect of having vaginal pain for so long totally unacceptable - not even to mention other potential complications such as prolapse and incontinence.
I suppose I’m asking whether it’ll be a given to have vaginal/perineal pain AFTER the birth with VB of normal sized babies (no reason to assume mine will be big).
Keen also to hear from women who had a pain free birth but pain afterwards and how they found it.

PS: And yes, I know there’ll be pain from having an ELCS after birth, but I just know I’ll cope better with having pain in abdomen than in genital area.

I am prepared for the risks of a c section, but I’m not prepared to accept certain risks of a VB.

In that case I am not sure why you started this thread. You obviously must have a CS. (But I have to wonder whether you are actually aware of the risks of CS)

@Dexter77

Have you heard yourself? You come across terribly, entirely unprepared to listen to anyone that isn't 100% telling you ELCS are wonderful.

I'm obviously not saying everyone has a crap time of it, In fact I made it clear I had read many accounts from women who had a perfect time and THOSE were the ones I chose to listen to. I wish I had been more prepared for it going horribly.

But anyway, your attitude is horrible so you'll get the birth you deserve I'm sure :)

@Maybebabynumber1

I had my first baby by elective c-section 5 weeks ago as I had vasa praevia and my consultant considered it to be too risky to give birth vaginally. Honestly, I was petrified about the surgery but it was fine. One of the doctors I spoke to said it is generally the safest option to give birth but it’s not routinely offered due to lack of funds in the NHS. I was quite fit before going in to surgery and was “up and about” technically a couple of days after but very much in a shuffling kind of way. Normal 5 minute walks would involved multiple sit downs even a couple of weeks after surgery due to burning pain around my scar. Other thing I didn’t realise was how painful it would be to go for a wee. Bought me to tears a few times, again probably for at least 2 weeks. Having said that I now feel completely fine and normal. I’ve not done anything more strenuous than walking the dog and picking up the baby mind but I feel great. Interesting to hear about the 10cm scar up thread. Measured mine today and it’s 17cm long but in a sort of smiley face shape so it may end up being a little bigger than you were expecting. My baby ended up in NICU for a little while and he was also my first so I didn’t have to look after other kids while I recovered but I can imagine the recovery would have been a lot tougher if I had other children to look after as well.

Very interesting and insightful @Maybebabynumber1! Yes I think I’m fully prepared for the shuffling about after the section and pain in standing upright and sitting down etc.

Could you explain what you mean re you found it painful to wee, painful where?
I’ve noticed there are huge differences in scar size, my friend had an ELCS 17 years ago in Europe and had a 4(!) cm incision, rest was stretched, you can’t find the scar today, I’ve literally hovered my face closely over her pubic area to locate it and couldn’t, lol.

But a friend from London had a massive 20cm scar from her ELCS. Strange isn’t it. If I go for the ELCS I’m obviously hoping for a small scar, will discuss what will determine the length of the incision with my consultant soon.

Sorry your baby had to go to NICU for a bit. Always scary!

I think you also need to think about the long-term potential downsides of both.

I had an EMCS and can't feel anything at all between my belly button and the scar. It doesn't sound like a big deal but it really bothers me - it makes me feel as though my stomach is not a part of me. I can't feel when someone touches it. It's as if it's an alien parasite on my body.

That is nerve damage from the incision and the doctors say it will never get better. It's not that unusual. If I had the choice, I would have chosen VB, even if that involved stitches and pain afterwards.

The scar can also be itchy for years afterwards. It just takes your undies rubbing on it slightly and then you are itching for days.

If you're going private in either event as you say, then I imagine your experience of a VB will be lovely. Try the water, try bouncing etc. You will have a lot of nice options in a private hospital. No matter how nice the hospital, a CS is a CS and it's major, invasive surgery.

@PaddleBoardingMomma sure, MY attitude is horrible.
Not that you’re worth responding to but I’ve noted various people’s accounts of things they didn’t enjoy about their sections, just as I’ve taken into account the ones who had a great experience.

I’m not sure why you’re commenting, you obviously are annoyed at the fact I’ve asked some questions and got some answers you didn’t like.

Sorry but what you find “acceptable” doesn’t really come into it! Having a baby hurts whichever way you go about it. I had a c-section and the epidural was agony and left me with nerve damage. I was in pain after all my babies, 3 VB and one CS. For upward of two weeks.

I didn’t have any birth injuries at all, felt absolutely fine after birth to the extent I didn’t need any pain killers. I’m also not physically fit as other posters are suggesting is helpful.

I religiously practiced down breathing before the birth and didn’t do pushing as such. I also distinctly remember listening to the midwife when she said stop etc… but I accept that it probably isn’t all that stopped birth injuries.

@SiblingStruggle

I think you also need to think about the long-term potential downsides of both.

I had an EMCS and can't feel anything at all between my belly button and the scar. It doesn't sound like a big deal but it really bothers me - it makes me feel as though my stomach is not a part of me. I can't feel when someone touches it. It's as if it's an alien parasite on my body.

That is nerve damage from the incision and the doctors say it will never get better. It's not that unusual. If I had the choice, I would have chosen VB, even if that involved stitches and pain afterwards.

The scar can also be itchy for years afterwards. It just takes your undies rubbing on it slightly and then you are itching for days.

If you're going private in either event as you say, then I imagine your experience of a VB will be lovely. Try the water, try bouncing etc. You will have a lot of nice options in a private hospital. No matter how nice the hospital, a CS is a CS and it's major, invasive surgery.

Sorry to hear that @SiblingStruggle, you’re not the first person to report having a numb abdominal area after a section. Must be very unpleasant! This seems to be much more common after EMCS though, keen to hear from anyone who had this issue after an ELCS!

It’s very possible that by going private some of the traumas I fear cold arise during a VB will be made less likely, such as being denied an epidural. It’s such a tough choice. Some days I think „I will sit up like last time and push a bit and then pick up my baby and will be sore for a few days.“

And then I remember the literally thousands of stories online and the many many stories in my circle of friends who had terrible long term damage and pain from VB. It’s just such a difficult decision, you just don’t know.

I think I’m not even basing my decision on my preferred outcome anymore, but am rather looking to eliminate what I consider worst case scenarios: oxygen deprivation, instrumental VB, major birth injuries. I just can’t get away from the fact that these things happen all the time.

@Prettybubblesintheair

Sorry but what you find “acceptable” doesn’t really come into it! Having a baby hurts whichever way you go about it. I had a c-section and the epidural was agony and left me with nerve damage. I was in pain after all my babies, 3 VB and one CS. For upward of two weeks.

Yes it does come into my birth choices what I find acceptable and what not. If I end up not being able to accept certain risks of VB I will choose an ELCS and vice versa. The pain from a VB and section are obviously very different and it’s ALL about which I personally find more acceptable.

I had 2 vbs with epidural although with DC2 it was being put in as he arrived.
Very straight forward, a couple of stitches the first time , none the second. I have no memory of vaginal pain but do remember the pain of constipation the first time. I took measures to avoid this subsequently. I had a planned section the third time which was nice in a way. No fear, pain free and a text book recovery. It is still much more of an imposition that a normal vb.

@elbea

I didn’t have any birth injuries at all, felt absolutely fine after birth to the extent I didn’t need any pain killers. I’m also not physically fit as other posters are suggesting is helpful.

I religiously practiced down breathing before the birth and didn’t do pushing as such. I also distinctly remember listening to the midwife when she said stop etc… but I accept that it probably isn’t all that stopped birth injuries.

That sounds like a great birth :)

I've had 2 emergency sections, last one was 6 years ago. I still have pain across my abdomen which become worse if I do any heavy lifting. The area is also still quiet numb. It really isn't the easy option.

Whatever you choose, choose for you and not because of what other people’s opinion of your choice is as they won’t have to deal with the after effects.

It's difficult because you are mainly going off anecdotal evidence... from mumsnet, friends, etc.

Let's face it... neither is ideal! Birth is a strain on the body and one way or another, it's going to be painful and the recovery may be difficult.

Your body is designed for labour. The baby is designed for vaginal birth. CS is there as a fall-back - to be used either in an emergency or when there is a particular reason (whether physical or psychological) that VB is not appropriate.

You have had a previous VB. I know the baby was very small but even so - you have evidence that your body can successful labour and birth a child. It's an amazing process!

I do not want another child, whereas before the birth I wanted a second. I will never go through that again - it's horrible. I know EMCS is very different to an ELCS but there are some things the same. There is the operation itself: the crazy shivering afterwards, the vomiting, the feeling of them pulling your stomach apart.

Then there is the stuff that is taken away from you: the fact you aren't the first person to hold the baby, that your partner can't cut the cord, that you can't hold the baby for ages afterwards while you're stitched up. You never get those moments back.

@Bitofachinwag

It does not bother me that you are considering to forego the pains and risks of a VB. It does bother me that you are not considering to forego the pains and risks of a CS.

Err, I am? I’m literally spending a day reading a thread about side effects of ELCSs in order to make up my mind? And am specifically concerned about bonding?

I have stated that I am expecting to digest the pains from a section on my abdomen much easier than potential pains in my genital area, and that the latter would be very difficult for me to deal with, and that I would feel violated if I had major vaginally damage and pain. Why this bothers you is a mystery to me, if I’m honest.

Having had both experiences I can't imagine anyone voluntarily putting themselves through a Cs. I have a non-existent scar according to hubby even though I can feel the difference in my skin. I felt like I had been ripped open from the insides and the pain went lower down and I was in agony for weeks. I also had the joy of a couple of needles from the post op injections getting stuck in my stomach- that hurt! Still have a numb tum after 9 years. My vaginal delivery I was back to normal in 2 weeks.

@LouLou198

I've had 2 emergency sections, last one was 6 years ago. I still have pain across my abdomen which become worse if I do any heavy lifting. The area is also still quiet numb. It really isn't the easy option.

Sorry to hear that, must be tough. One reason why I’m tending towards an ELCS is that this would rule out an EMCS, which mostly seem to be harder to recover from.

OP go for the ELCS. It's 10/15 mins to get the baby out (and they don't cut muscle - people often think they do but they don't in an ELCS) then 20/30 mins stitching you up. My scar is 10cm ish and it's not "on the abdomen" which is conjuring up the image of a scar you can see in a bikini - it is waaaay down in the pubes. No way is it visible over pants/bikini unless you are wearing very niche pants!! I didn't have any pain during the operation, the pulling the baby out felt weird but not painful, I'm a big wuss and I felt like I couldn't stand up straight properly for the first few days but the nurses looked at me like I was making it up when I walked hunched over and I do think it was the anticipation of pain if I stood up rather than pain that was actually present. I was totally fine two weeks later. The most painful part of the ELCS for me was the first poo (and I think it's good to know that because I was a bit surprised and I was sobbing in the loo). Once the stitch comes out do make an effort to use the scar gel though because if you do the scar fades super fast - I didn't and mine is still really visible 8 months later so I'm starting now but the gel works much better if the scar is new.

My OBGYN told me that 50% of first time VBs end up in intervention of some kind - forceps, EMCS etc and that a c section is marginally lower risk for the baby, VB is marginally lower risk for the mother.

I bonded immediately with my emcs baby, it took months with my vbac baby. Both traumatic in different ways, not always an indication of how well you'll bond. FWIW if dc2 hadn't come naturally, I had a planned c sec lined up. It took longer, but I recovered well from my emcs. Both have risks and benefits, you're absolutely doing the right thing by canvassing opinions to get to a place that you feel comfortable with.

I've had an EMCS and an ELCS.

ELCS recovery was harder, with the EMCS I was out walking miles by the end of the week feeling fine without meds. After the ELCS I needed pain killers for 4 weeks but fine after that.

I developed the numb belly thing around my scar after the ELCS and 9 years later it still gets ridiculously itchy if I'm sweating.

FWIW I was also worried about the aftermath of a vaginal birth but I was planning on going ahead with it any way until I was told it wasn't an option because I don't know anyone whose had long term effects and most have had straight forward recoveries too. There's no guarantees either way.

@SiblingStruggle

It's difficult because you are mainly going off anecdotal evidence... from mumsnet, friends, etc.

Let's face it... neither is ideal! Birth is a strain on the body and one way or another, it's going to be painful and the recovery may be difficult.

Your body is designed for labour. The baby is designed for vaginal birth. CS is there as a fall-back - to be used either in an emergency or when there is a particular reason (whether physical or psychological) that VB is not appropriate.

You have had a previous VB. I know the baby was very small but even so - you have evidence that your body can successful labour and birth a child. It's an amazing process!

I do not want another child, whereas before the birth I wanted a second. I will never go through that again - it's horrible. I know EMCS is very different to an ELCS but there are some things the same. There is the operation itself: the crazy shivering afterwards, the vomiting, the feeling of them pulling your stomach apart.

Then there is the stuff that is taken away from you: the fact you aren't the first person to hold the baby, that your partner can't cut the cord, that you can't hold the baby for ages afterwards while you're stitched up. You never get those moments back.

I’m using anecdotal evidence on top of statistical evidence, which says for instance that ELCS are the safest birth option for the baby.

Really sorry to hear that your EMCS has put you off having more children. I know a section is no walk in the park for many, and I’m not super keen on not being able to hold my child after the surgery and miss out on those moments as you say.

But I think I would resent my child for life if I had a major vaginal injury. The fact that these are relatively common shows that our bodies are in fact not ‘designed’ for birth. It’s a very flawed process, and I wonder whether I should gamble if I can have a routine surgery instead that will obviously have its risks and pain involved, but will neither leave me mutilated in my body’s most sensitive area, not my child injured. This is my thought process, in a nutshell.

I’ve had two ELCS.
First one was horrible because I had a bad reaction to the anaesthesia and shook violently and vomited during and after the section. Also my baby got neonatal pneumonia and I couldn’t go to the SCBU to see her because I was stuck in bed unable to move. Afterwards I was in severe pain for two weeks and couldn’t poo for 3 weeks and had to have manual evacuation.
Second one was a dream. No reaction to the anaesthetic, felt great next day and could pick up and feed the baby etc. Recovered perfectly and no constipation.
I can’t say why. They were both ELCS in private hospitals. Just completely different experiences

I understand exactly what you’re saying. I would just advise you to think about all aspects of it, not just the pain and the risk.

An intervention is very different to a CS (and I speak as someone who had pretty much every intervention under the sun before an EMCS)

Why would you resent your child for the vaginal injury? Would you resent them if you had long term effects from a CS too?
Based on that I think there is a bigger issue here and you potentially should have some counselling before giving birth by whatever means. Resenting your child for something that goes wrong during your birth is deeply worrying.

[quote Dexter77]@Loubiemoo what makes you think I’m not informed about section risks? Have done tons of research and they’re incredibly safe and often preferable to VB. The very fact that I HAVE done tons of research into both options has left me tending towards ELCS as VBs end in instrumental or EMCS ca 50% of the time and come with a plethora of other risks.[/quote]
Sorry, neither of these things are true. The percentage of labours that end in either an instrumental or caesarean delivery is nationally quite a bit below 50%, and Caesarean sections are generally more dangerous for women than a vaginal birth.
Having said that, I hope your elective caesarean is a great experience for you