C or V?

[dillinger]

I have a son who is nearly 2, my labour with him was long - I wanted a homebirth and after 2 days of labour at home I was transferred to hospital, he was back to back and stuck. I then had an epidural and was taken to theatre, ended up with keilands forceps being used, I had an episiotomy and a 3rd degree tear. I remember being stitched for 45 minutes but didnt think anything of it - and I healed well.

Im now almost 6 months pregnant and at my booking in appointment the midwife mentioned that a c section may be discussed with me by my consultant further on in the pregnancy but that there was no reason why I shouldnt be able to have my baby vaginally at home as I wanted.

My second appointment was with a different midwife who wasnt supportive at all and said I should have a c section or end up faecal incontinant. This was a huge shock. I asked if that would mean further c sections with subsequent children etc and she said why would I want to try a vaginal after having a c section?! She wasnt friendly and couldnt get me out of her office soon enough it felt. She was brushing off my comments and questions and made me feel that my even thinking of trying vaginally makes me crap

I was upset and met with the midwife 'manager' from my hospital who said there was no reason why I couldnt have baby at home etc and she would make an appointment to see my consultant sooner.

I saw my consultant who said there was a 10% of another 3rd degree tear, and a slight chance within that 10% of further complications, so basically the odds were looking ok. She also said that there was nothing to suggest that this baby would get stuck (while the midwife said the baby prob would) and that if anything the labour would be longer as my uterus would know what its doing etc so to speak! She also said that now we 'know' that a baby CAN pass through my pelvis so that shouldnt be a worry. She said that I prob wouldnt be offered a c section either due to how well Id healed etc.

I left feeling a bit better but what the other midwife said has stuck with me. Im not enjoying this pregnancy much because Im so worried and I dont know what to do for the best. My partner says that if the consultant was worried about that trauma again then she wouldve said, nevermind agree to support me with a home birth and I guess hes right but it still bothers me. Ive changed midwives so I dont have to worry about her turning up on the big day and causing me stress - Im sure shes a nice person but she didnt offer the support I needed.

I know a lot can change between now and then but I just dont know what to do. I dont personally see that opting/pushing to get a c section and having major surgery is better for me than the slight risk of a tear. If I have to have a c section then fair enough but I dont want to pick that option. I sometimes think that either way I'll feel like Ive made the wrong decision. I dont live near family so would have to look after my 2 year old and a newborn by myself after the 2 weeks paternity leave and that causes concern if Ive just had surgery.

I want to try for vaginally at home but does that make me selfish?

Sorry for the long post but Im all over the place. x

great post mintpurple !!

Thankyou. Ive posted the letter off today, Im a little worried that Ive left it too late but I was actually quite concerned about possibly hurting the feelings/causing trouble etc regarding the midwife! Silly I know, I think this is a time when I should be as selfish as I like if it makes me feel better!

I dont think I will get a doula though, I know that just by knowing that I dont have to see that other midwife that I will feel so much more positive and to be honest I dont want another 'outsider' in my home, my partner was fab when I was in labour with our son, and that was so long its got to be easier this time lol I know I can do it, I just didnt want that particular person there as I know what an impact negative things can have on a labouring woman.

Thanks again for all the posts.

Good for you - you don't need negative people around you at this time especially when they're supposed to be helping you. Have you thought about a water birth by the way? I had one last time and it was the only time I didn't tear (2nd deg tears with first 3 babies)...I'm planning another one in a couple of weeks.

Slacker - thankyou. To be honest this time round I havent thought about a waterbirth at all! I did when I was carrying my son and really liked the idea but as we lived in a flat in an old georgian building it wasnt an option and I was gutted! Then even though his labour was long I coped well with a tens machine and didnt have any gas and air until I was already at 7cms so Im hoping I will be able to manage again this time as I did then - lots of moving around lol It took over a day just to get to that point so Im really keeping my fingers crossed that this time will be quicker!!

Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into it again though and see how I feel. We tried that perineum (sp?) massage last time which was mucho horrible and obviously didnt help me I think as I get bigger I'll practise squatting too lol

Right, sorry to bump again but I need a bit of reassurance.

I recieved a message on the telephone yesterday from the Midwifery manager at my hosp that Ive previously mentioned. Wanting to 'talk to me about a letter'. So shes obv ended up with the letter I posted.

I dont want to speak to her. When she visited before she told me that I 'couldnt choose' whos present at my birth, fair enough I cant choose who attends but I can certainly have a say in who DOESNT attend. I know my rights and I ignored her comment. Ive since seen another midwife who said the only way I could make sure I dont see that particular midwife is if I have my baby in hospital. I know they have targets to meet, and me doing all this is prob seen as being a nuisance or whatever but I wouldnt be doing it if I didnt think I had a valid reason.

When I complained about how I had been spoken to I was sent a letter but saying things like 'we're sorry you saw things that way' kind of thing - like it was just my fault and they hadnt done anything wrong or whatever. So I dont want to talk to this woman now, Im pretty sure that shes only phoning to patronise me again and tell me that I cant do this yadda yadda yadda whereas I know that I can, and I also know that if that horrible bloody midwife turns up to my labour then I dont actually have to let her in.

I understand this causes problems etc but Im absolutely petrified of this birth whereas I felt fine until I spoke to her. Things might turn out differently I know but right now I need to feel positive and I find it hard to stand up to people.

Am I in the wrong? Id like to just be a bit ignorant right now and see how things go - she knows how I feel now at least.

www.aims.org.uk

email AIMS if you need to

you are in the right

you can request a partic. midwife does not attend you

you do not have to let her in

if she is not being supportive and you are feeling undermined,she should not be part of your care

The aims website has been very helpful and I have learnt a lot from there.

I just dont want to talk to this woman just so that she can belittle me and make me feel crap again.

Maybe I should ignore the phone calls - they now know my wishes, I dont want to feel pushes around again, or like Ive got no options. Ive made the request, I dont think I have to answer to anyone.

If they were supportive in the first place I wouldnt be in this situation!

Any independant midwives near me?!

not sure re indie midwives in your area, i only know northwest!

you do not have to speak to her.

you can write again or email if possible and reiterate your position

your hospital should have a Maternity Services Liasion Committee.... they are chaired by someone independent of the PCT and NHS. You can attend as a user of the services to put your point across about the care you have received. they are obliged to listen to you and take steps to review things. they are usually quarterly meetings.

Right Ive emailed aims and will also see what they have to say. Im not going to talk to this woman, Ive made my wishes clear and if theyre not respected I will take things further, theres no way I can give birth waiting for that nasty midwife to be all 'told you so' should anything go wrong.

Shes obv got the letter so I will leave things at that I think, dp knows the drill and wont let that midwife in if she arrives (unless I change my mind etc)

A few weeks ago I looked into independant midwives, closest I could find was Bristol but theres no way we could afford the 2000 pounds and I think Ive left it too late now anyway.

This is meant to be a good time but Ive never been so stressed

I'm using an IM from Bristol who's happy to travel to Bath or further (did you say you were in Bath? or am I imagining that?), she's really very nice, worth considering if you could afford the fees if spread over a few months, or if you can raise the money somehow. I know you said you'd spoken to an IM that you thought was pushy but there are several in the area. There's a Bath homebirth group meeting this Sunday I think that my IM will be at if you wanted to meet her informally, or just get some general support...

I'm sorry they're stressing you out, at least you do know that you're in the right and you don't have to accept care from that midwife.

sorry to hear this dillinger. it does just get worse as due date approaches doesn't it? i'm 34 weeks now and have been through quite some nonsense, not as specific or serious as yours in relation to one person, but i've lost faith so much in the system i've been sleeping badly, tearful, frightened etc. We did manage to get an independent midwife, signed up with her last night. It is putting a horrible whole in our budget, but I have to say that the peace of mind I've already got in having a well trained, completely up to date advocate on my side, whatever happens, is priceless. Can you stretch to it? I think Someone mentioned on the thread linked to above that families have been known to remortgage even. Also as I've been speaking to midwives, I've found that some will delay payment, take very small installments over time, reduce payment significantly. It is worth asking, even if it isn't offered.

It was horrendous to get over the mental hurdle of paying, it feels so wrong (e.g. all that money on me? and not everyone gets this, why am i so special etc? but then I'm actually the lynchpin of this family at present and deserve it). I'm also mad I've paid so many NI stamps all my life and just get damaged by the system that is supposed to help me the only time I need care so far in my life.

In short I was just getting ill with worry. And now I feel positive. I will see this MW every week til delivered, she is there on the phone, there is time to make a relationship. I really hope you can find one, or a doula, or some form of advocate to give you the ease I am currently experiencing. All power to you.

Slacker- yes Im in Bath, if you could maybe pass on contact details for the midwife you are using it would be very much appreciated. What are her fees? Ive heard of that homebirth support group but never been.

As much as I would love to have an independent midwife I just realistically dont think its financially possible right now. Dp was a bit worried last night as we were discussing buying a poolinabox for a waterbirth... I have mentioned it to him on a couple of occasions, I dont think he understands just how scared I am. I just dont think we could stretch to it. I'll have to keep looking to see if there are other ways or something, I dont know.

Its such a shame that things have to be the way they are - if I could afford one then great, if I cant then I have to put up with crap support.

dillinger, look at having a doula who can support you before, during and after the birth. a trainee is £150...

Hi, she's Jo at Bristol Birth Practice - she's the one on the far left of that photo on the front page. Fees are 2.8k but most IMs are quite flexible re payment terms I believe, like paying over a long period of time if necessary, and if it saves you from a lot of stress and worry and you end up with a lovely birth with a trusted mw, that's worth paying for IMO.

Have a chat with her if you can get along to the homebirth group this weekend, and if you feel it's meant to be, you'll find a way to make the finances work! I was dubious about paying for an IM at first but feel that it's worth it for me this time.

If you decide you don't want to go that route, you can get lucky on the NHS, last time I'd not met the midwife who came to my homebirth and she was absolutely fine, if you can just manage not to get embroiled in too much negative conversation with the NHS beforehand and just stick to your plans you can still have a good homebirth. But an IM does take that uncertainty away.

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your doula applies on your behalf, it is for women who cannot afford a doula, due to financial constraints, cannot remember the exact criteria. some offer a sliding scale of fees, some allow payment in stages... e.g a deposit then payments before and after the birth.. certainly worth looking into ,IMO , as a doula

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Thanks to everyone for such help.

While I completely agree that the IM's are definately worth paying for, needs must and all that and we cant afford it this time even if payments were to be spread over a period of time (everything seems to happen at once doesnt it!) Dont want to go into too much detail but no, not this time.

In that respect theres no reason why I cant have a nice birth with an nhs midwife - the one that came out to me last time was lovely, and like others have said at least I know my rights and wont be bullied. I understand the attractiveness of having a doula present and have emailed one near me so will see what she says however Im still not convinced that I will need or want her there. Maybe if I had sorted this months ago I couldve built up some kind of relationship with one and would feel different on the subject.

I think I just want to forget about the hassle Ive had so far, and keep my fingers crossed that I'll have a nice midwife attend! Not being able to go down the IM route I dont think I have many other options left than to just try and think positive.

If we choose to have more children in the future I will definately make sure that we have savings to use so that I get the support I want.

Thanks everyone I'll keep you posted!

great ! you sound more positive ! let us know how you get on

Once I realised that arguing and negotiating with NHS midwives before birth is pointless, and just relaxed last time, I found them much more cooperative, and as I said the one who turned up for the birth was absolutely fine (think she'd been warned that I was a stroppy cow!). As long as you're clear what you want, you don't have to justify yourself or get permission for things beforehand, just go with the flow.

Last time my baby had been breech at the last antenatal so when we called the midwife out in labour we didn't even know if it would be a breech homebirth or not (it wasn't), but she was cool about it. Most midwives who attend homebirths are reasonably enthusiastic about them!

You'll be fine

good on you dillinger. how many more weeks have you got now? you sound like the woman with the plan now

Im almost 32 weeks now its flown by this time I must say.

I was in tears earlier to dp about not having an IM and positively freaking out about this birth. He asked me for the midwifery managers number and managed to get hold of her. She said to him a few times that 'it was difficult to discuss with a 3rd party' (meaning him - as if!) and laid it on a bit about coming to visit us tomorrow to 'have a chat about things' but once dp had a bit of a go and said how everything had effected me, how I was becoming scared of the whole thing and have worried since 14 weeks, and that he knows my rights too and wont accept that midwife or anymore bullying or pressure from them. He also said if you dont respect our wishes and send her then he wont let her in, etc etc. She then got off her high horse and apologised and said she'd make sure I got the birth I wanted.

Sounds selfish and harsh on our part I know but it seems unless you get a bit passionate you dont get anywhere. What are the chances I'll have to get transferred now after all this LOL At least I should be able to remove this worry now

Thanks for all of the support

Oh Ive also emailed a Doula in Bath who was the lovely antenatal teacher at the classes we went to when I was pregnant with ds so will see what she says, however now that my main worry seems to be sorted, that might just be the push that I needed.

are you on or watching our due in march thread dillnger? Come on over for some support and company if you feel like it?

Your DP is a star! My experience is that if you stand up to them you get treated with more respect/kid gloves. So I reckon you'll be fine now. Good luck

Bless my dp! He managed to get 5 mins to look on the net whilst at work the other day and phoned a doula near us (not the one I mentioned above - someone else). Shes booked up around my due date but recommended a trainee that she has worked with a few times, so dp spoke to her and we met her on tues evening. She seems very nice, and has 4 children of her own, it was nice to talk to her as she understood what I was trying to say etc

Im still in two minds cos right now Im thinking 'I dont want her to see me naked' lol whereas I know when Im in labour I really wont care! And having the extra support will be lovely.