The Doula Bible, lulu, Klaw, Mars anyone else? Discuss please!

[3Ddonut]

HOw cheeky am I??!!!!!

Anyway, I bought Spiritual Midwifery as so exuberantly recommended and started reading, I read around all the hippy words and I am on the whole enjoying it, but reading the stories, I just can't help but think 'you're on drugs aren't you?' The stories are amazing if taken at face value but there's so many and they're so similar it makes me think it's all one mad hippy trip. I am taking quite a lot from it and I haven't got to the 'technical' bit yet. What do you lot think?

LOL!! it is my absolute favourite book, and i recommend it to everyone, clients or not !

once you get passed the psychedelic / surges/ tantric/ holy stuff.. you realise that this woman has set up a birthing commune where the c.s rate is something like 2 % .... compared to 20 - 25 % that seems common in this country...

she embraces the natural physiology of birth, and ensures all her midwives and birth attendants do aswell...

natural childbirth does tend to follow a patter taht you start to recognise, on the whole

i think that is why the stories are so similar

when i was in labour ward the other night, i could hear other labouring women, and the sounds they make are very, very similar

it is very primal, and tapping into that is important

there are some sad stories, and some with not so happy endings in there too

it is all about embracing the power your body has in labour, working with it, not against it, not trying to labour to some doctor's time limit..

also, the women are not left alone, they are supported, nurtured , cherished, loved and cared for during labour.. and there is always a loving hand nearby, so important when you are in labour. feeling alone, deserted, scared and vulnerable is not helpful in labour.

it reminds us that there is another way, to the medicalised and time limited way we are expected to labour in obstetric led units

the technical bit is very helpful, she has some great drawings, diagrams and explanations of female anatomy which really help you visualise the birth process

i love ina may, and i suggest you read her guide to childbirth too, it is less trippy

I totally agree with your comments, their lifestyle sounds amazing and I am getting all that you said about how the Mum's find having her or one of the other mw's there such a comfort and that the csection rate is down, I'm just getting a little bogged down with all the 'heavy' 'trippy' 'psychedelic' stuff. Do you think they're all on drugs? Maybe we need a bit of pot to open our minds to it all naturally, maybe it's better than gas and air (I also noted that there's no mention of pain relief, they don't get pain, is it because they're stoned me wonders?)

ah, but they do have pain.. but what you don;t get is the ' oh, i wish i;d had an epidural, i thought i was going to die'..they know they can get through the pain, they accept it, and are supported through it

being prepared , being supported and being able to move, vocalise at will, are all very helpful at dealing with the pain as are the endorphns produced.

well, I believe that the women who go to the Farm are so well supported and educated about birth that they do not experience pain levels as high as 'we' do. They are workign with their bodies rather than against them, and as the saying goes you have nothing to fear but fear itself, (I'm planning on adding that to my website! LOL) so they find it so much easier to bear.

I do worry a little about the number of times they do ARM but other than that you can't argue with Ina May's stats! I have both her books

I really hope I get the chance to labour again after doing all this reading and now knowing what labour can be like. You should have seen how I went when Jaynehater described her unplanned HB and I realised she experienced what it is supposed to be like to birth a baby, with foetal ejection reflex and all!

I also like Dr Sarah Buckley and her fab articles and book, Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering.

And Pam England's Birthing from Within

Right now I'm trying to get through Grantly Dick Read's Childbirth Without Fear. I found it a bit too text book and put off reading it at first but WOW! what an amazing book considering it was first published in 1942!!! Incidently, all the childbirth gurus, including Ina May, Sheila Kitsinger & Janet Balaskas, swear by him!

Am also a Jean Sutton fan!!

Thanks guys, I have birthing without fear but started with Ina May. I'm grateful to you both for discussing this with me as I was starting to feel a little put off by it all. Mumsnet is great isn't it?! I feel very sad that I had my 3 babies in hospital and even though my littlest (just 16months ago) was OK and probably the best and most straightforward but there are still elements that I would have loved to have been different. I want to have another baby to do it right this time!!!!! I feel happy that I can provide this service to other women and while I'm preparing for my doula journey, I'm thinking of my first client.

Mars, anything to add???? How are you all by the way?

You're more than welcome!

I'm here babe. Didn't realise you were looking for me.

What Lulu said!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love Michel Odent's chapter on Birth Physiology in 'The Caesarean'.

Ina May without a doubt. Pam England's 'Birthing Within'.

Most of my reading now is about breastfeeding and antenatals. The Social Baby is my fave book at the moment but I'm looking to get Nurturing the Family by Jacqueline Kellher (sp),

Also currently reading anything by Klaus and Klaus whose statistics are quoted by doulas.

as mars said and lulu really......love msot of the books i have read, esp spiritual midwifery, also MO, the c/s is great and birthing from within.

Hi all, I've just stumbled across this thread so hope you don't mind me popping in!

I've just started my antenatal teacher training so have got all these books on my list to read!

I've started though with Caroline Flint's Sensitive Midwifery, it is aimed more at midwives but its a really good book, very gentle and not too 'textbook' like. Its kind of what the ideal midwife should be & do!

sensitive midwifery is also a good book, i didn;t find it quite as enthralling as the Ina May ones, but it is excellent nonetheless

what is great is the total and utter endorsement of the birth process, through the eyes of a midwife... and her real affinity for the women she supports

I've not read Ina May yet but I absolutely LOVED Birth Reborn by Michel Odent. I felt extremely empowered and proud of my own body after reading it and would recommend it to anyone!

It's a fantastic read and the man that wrote it started off extremely medicalised until he started really watching women in labour and learning from them. It's an amazing read.

Hi Gingganggooly, I have the Michel Odent one waiting to read too, I may start on that one next. Are you a doula too?

Hi rosmerta you're more than welcome.

Hi Mars and HertsandEssex, how are you?

Lulu, flapjacks very nice thankyou!

Mars, I'm finding it hard to locate any klaus and klaus books, they all seem to be out of print with amazon, where did you get yours from?

So, guys, to be controversial, please vote here, do you think Ina May and farm people were on drugs or do you think they all had those amazing spiritual experiences, maybe it's a case of keeping up with the Jones' you know, if one says it was like this then to 'fit' in you must agree? I would imagine that in those sorts of communities, there's a bit of one-upmanship in that one is more into the lifestlye than the next? I'm not being cynical, I'm just interested in your views. Thankyou.

I want to get a meaty discussion going about these books...... c'mon have your say!

have only had 2 hours sleep, so cannot do meaty discussions right now

will have a think on and get back to you

mwah ! x

lulu, bless, night night.

sorry 3Ddonut, I've not read the Ina May one but once I do I will let you know what I think!

Lulu, thanks for the flapjack [yummy]!

A couple of weeks ago I went to see Michel Odent speak at the Active Birth Centre in N. London. I hadn't really heard much about him (I only started my course a couple of months ago) but he was really good. We kind of understood why so many women went a bit wobbly when we said we were going!

You know, I also read Birth: A History by Tina Cassidy which is fascinating and helps to understand how childbirth has changed over the years and why and how the interventions have come about.

I've got the Doula Book by Klaus and Klaus......

those of us personally affected by CS will relate to Silent Knife but those of you who have no personal experience will find that it can explain the emotional viewpoint and why we are so PASSIONATE about supporting VBACers. I also can't wait till I can afford the VBAC Experience by Lynn Baptisti Richards and I have also had recommendations for the Labour Progress Handbook by Penny Simpkins.

Rosemerta, you lucky thing you!!!

It was really good, he was talking about hormones in labour, and a couple of things he said really helped me understand some things about my labour when ds was born.

instinctive birthing is v good, as is rediscovering birth, the politics of birth, childbirth without fear, the waterbirth book and gentle birth choices.

p.s. 3d, no i dont think they were on drugs!

What do people think of the Doula Book? I've just finished reading it, and I really didn't like it very much. Most of the emphasis seemed to be on women in hospital (OK, probably an American thing) and I also really disliked how they thought the active management of labour in Dublin was a really great thing.

Mars, I've got Nurturing the Family if you'd like to borrow it?

May I join in

It really isn't important what books you have you haven't read as a doula I feel. No matter what knowledge and experience you have if the mummy isn't in the same space. As a doula we are there to empower mummy's to have the best births they can not to impose our ideals and desires. IYKWIM. We can do all we can to reassure them and talk them through fears etc before the labour begins which can have very positive results.

The farm is a place where like minded mummys go, they truly are allowing their bodies to do what they are naturally able to do without any doubts so hence the similar birth stories.

Daisy............. YES! That would be lovely! Thank you.

T2M what is good about reading those books is that it opens your mind to other experiences. I find that my clients have read some of the books and I like to know where they are coming from.

That said... you're right. There's no such thing as a doula bible and it is very much about what the woman wants. However it is helpful to be able to help them articulate what it is that they want to say.

the books i have read have had a good impact on my doulaing

firstly, it has endorsed the way i feel about birth and made me confident in what i beleive

secondly , it is a good reminder of the natural physiology of birth

thirdly , it has helped me articulate to mothers the way i feel about birth,and to understand the way they feel.. if i can recommend a book that echos their feelings or helps them understand any fears they have, then great !