How to get an elective c-section?

[islabonita]

Hello there Ladies.
Is it really possible to get an elective c-section without any "medical reasons" such as placenta previa etc. Is total panic towards childbirth good enough reason to get one?
Is there anyone who got a c-section just because they felt like it was right option for them?
How did you get it and how difficult it was to persuade the consultants?
thanks

Eleusis

'Medical technology is a good thing. I don't want anyone but medical doctor delivering my baby. And in this country you have to have a section to get that.'

Do you really want a new SHO practicing their surgical skills on you, or one step up from that, a junior registrar?

Unless you go private or have a specific case known to make a c/s difficult, you most likely won't get a consultant doing your surgery.

In the labour ward where I work, we have at least 10 times as many c/s returns for wound breakdown, infection etc than we have for perineal problems. (although its still quite uncommon)

Tori

On the other hand, all the staff you mention will most likely be in the hospital anyway and will be paid whether they do a c/s or lie and sleep in their rooms!

The main extra cost involved is length of stay in the hospital, and this can be counterbalanced by some of the long 3 and 4 day inductions.

C/S is absolutely necessary for some people due to specific reasons, whether they be medical or psychological, but we all know that it is better / safer / more natural to have a vaginal birth.

There will always be people who just don't want to birth a baby naturally, and that is their choice.

They will always be a small minority in this country, and tbh, if they are so fearful of labour and childbirth, they will probably not labour well anyway, as fear will really knock a labour on the head. Maybe its for the best for them to have a c/s.

eleusis have you had a vaginal birth? it seems from what you have said that you have not. I understand a little now why you have not been able to see both sides.
A good vaginal birth beats a section hands down.

Kitty, no I have not had a vaginal birth. I tried one once. Never again. (however, I don't plan to have any more kids so it's irrelevant really) But from what I hear from VBACers lots of women think they are over rated. Ther are of course also lots of women who are very happy to have given birth vaginally. Why? I shall never understand. But if that is what they want and are prepared to take the risk, then hey ho it's none of my business. Your opinion that vaginal is better than caesarean is certainly not indisputed fact.

And I beilieve it is you who can not see the other side. Nowhere have I suggested that everyone should go out and get a section even if it is against her will because I know it to be better. I simply think it should be an option for those who want it after being presented with all of the facts ad making an informed decision.

In the current state of the NHS, I believe a caesarean is safer for mother and baby.

Regarding the consultant vs junior doctor. Yes, you are right getting the actual consultant is unlikely. I had DS (second baby) at Queen Charlotte. Because it is a teaching hospital, I had two of the more senior positions around the table (two surgeons, two anaesthetists, etc.) It was a very good experience.

I also had 2 surgeons and 2 anesthetists for my elective. I was such a healthy and low risk specimen of a mother that they used me to cut the teeth of the surgeon in training. They were both behind the screen, with the senior surgeon describing to the junior what to do - very interesting to hear.

I also got the surgeon to cut out the previous scar from my first em cs, which did not heal nicely. And sew it back neater this time. I scar anyway, but it healed better with the elective.

Textbook smooth recovery. Somebody has to be the guinea pig.

Anyone wondered why there's a paed at all sections and not at vaginal deliveries? That's because we expect babies to come out flat or compromised for sections.

Has anyone also been told that the risk of stillbirth increases by 50% for subsequent pregnancies.

And just for the record, medical doctors are not experts in normal birth, midwives are. Having a doctor in the room does not increase the safety quotient...

Also, saw someone talking about 'unnecessary' one to one care. Jeez, go and read the research (and not anecdotal stuff please).

Sorry slightly unrelated rant.

Wonder when an artifical uterus will be invented and we can do without the inconvenience of pregnancy...

Snaf, help me!

To get waaay waaay back to the OP, it sounds like you need to talk through your "total panic" before you can make any sort of rational choice about delivery methods. Until you resolve that, you'll never feel truly comfortable with your decision.

I hope you find some answers

Sections are not natural, they aren't as safe, sometimes they are necessary and thankgod they are there for emergencies, that is where they should stay, for emergencies and other valid medical reasons where a vaginal birth would not be as good for the mother or baby.

What does unnatural have to do with unsafe? I don't believe the two are necessarily related.

We can debate this all day long. But the truth is the OP wants a section and it doesn't really matter whether or not you approve. She can find a doctor to do it on the NHS with a bit of coaching from me and other section veterans. So, OP, if you want to cat me, by all means feel free to do so.

eleusis, sections are not as safe, that is a fact. I am a section veteran too and I can say that for me my vaginal births were way better. I know that others have bad experiences.
The thing that I find the greatest shame is that she is denying herself the possibility of experiencing a decent vaginal birth.
How do you know until you try?

I'm pretty sure I don't want my left foot amputated. I don' need to try it to find out.

The only thing that would keep me from having a section in a good NHS hospital (and I am choosey) is if I wanted say 4 or more kids.

I don't trust the NHS to spot scar abruption and act on it in a timely manner. If I had faith in the competance of the NHS I would be more middle ground on this issue. But, I think the organisation is crap. And let me clarify that when I say the organisation, I don't mean individual staff members. It is the structure, mismanagement, understaffed wards that keep the medical professionals from doing their jobs well. And, given these problems, a lot more women will turn to the medical expertise of a section.

Well, we agree on one thing!!!

ffs. of COURSE you're going to piss yourself over the idea of childbirth. everyone does (well, if you're a normal human being...watermelons coming out of small holes, etc, etc).

But WHY on EARTH would you choose major abdominal surgery over a few howls?

I am epidural-girl turned total drug-free-birth-bird. You don't think you can do it, listen to the stories, gasp... then do it... Happiest birth was in water, no drugs (couldn't get gas/air off DH).

Hire, buy or steal a friggin' birth pool, stay-the-fuck-away from an NHS hospital, do a hypnobirthing malarchy and have a doula or IM. Perfect.

The NHS shortages create the scary medical births.

Well said Brummie, I have watched this thread with growing horror, I cannot and never will understand why someone would voluntarily allow, nay ask someone to perform major abdominal surgery on them because they are scared., Isn't everyone?

However does mean 'good' births can only be guaranteed by those able to afford doulas and their own birth pools. Emphasis on 'guaranteed'.

Nothing is 'guaranteed' Brummie .

I have picked up the pieces of some awful disasters at homebirths with all the pools, IMs, hypnotapes etc when they finally come into labour ward.
In fact, one of my best friends had a serious restriction on her midwifery registration due to a patient of hers refusing to tranfer in after a delayed 2nd stage ending up with a baby with CP, and my friend barred from attending homebirths, which had been her livelihood.

So, with the best of intentions, disasters can happen anywhere Brummie. Money cant buy you any sort of guarantee.

I still agree with you though that home is the best place to have a baby, everything being equal

Oh look, we have moved on to trying to persuade someone to have a homebirth on a thread titled "how to get an elective c-section?"

I wonder, do you think it would be inappropriate to post the pros of elective caesareans on a thread about someone wanting a homebirth? I do. And the homebirth suggestions here are equally inappropriate.

islabonita - how are you feeling about it all now? I know this thread has somewhat digressed (!!!) but have you read any useful stuff. Have you been able to make an appointment to chat with the consultant or someone at the hospital about your worries and concerns?

For now I would keep your options open. Even if you do decide to go for an elective c section, after getting all the advice you can, you don't have to make that decision until much further down the line.

Good luck.

Eleusis, your main argument was about the state of nhs hospitals and how they are not condusive to a relaxed , clean and good vaginal birth. I agree with you.
The logical step surely is not to go and have your belly cut open but to consider a homebirth, there you have a birth that is excellent for both mother and baby, where the mother is relaxed and calm and because of this the need for intervention is significantly lower.

erm... I think you are putting words in my mouth. Whilst I do agree the NHS has failings, I'm not sure if it stands out as my main argument. It was one reason among many.

I will never understand why people think having a birth at home without a doctor present is a safe thing to do for either mother or baby. The whole idea scares the bejeezus out of me. BUT, I would never go on to a home birth thread tooting the joys and benefits to mother and baby of having an elective caesarean.

I am happy to debate methods of delivery and what the NHS should or shouldn't provide. But this is not the thread. Start a new one and send me a link and I'll join you (work permitting -- I am currently avoiding it). But, please, not here.

Kittywits

There are protocols for c-section births in respect of the staffing required and I'm told that they are adhered to for fear of prosecution if anything goes wrong.

I opted for a c-section as my local hospital is chronically understaffed for midwives and I didn't want to labour as one of say 4 women under the care of one qualified midwife with my dh having to pop out of the labour room and find her again and "beg" her to come and check me and the unborn baby if there was any change in our progress, as happened to a close friend. My local hospital doesn't have a birth pool, offers no domino service or home from home facilities, the midwives even denied there was any such thing as a mobile epidural.

For me it was risk management issue, I was never interested in chasing the "beautiful birth experience" that a straightforward vaginal might have offered me, as my ultimate goal was the safety of myself and our baby.

When the postcode lottery of NHS services is addressed women might think differently but I would think it very wrong if anyone had tried to deny you your choice of a natural birth why can't you support my choice of an elective c-section. Unless women unite to ensure that we all have a choice in how we give birth, we will not be a strong voice in stopping the further deterioration of maternity services.

f) It's far too early to be planning an elective!

I got that one too. And I said "no it isn't. If I wait until 36 week to start talking about it I'll be a nervous wreck. There is no harm in planning ahead." I agreed to come back and schedule it at 36 weeks. And then I saw my notes a couple of weeks later and she had written "patient wanted to discuss modes of delivery and is happy to make a decision at 36 weeks". What? That was not the conversation we had! So I wrote my own version of the conversation on the notes which no doubt got her attention.

Having waited until 36 weeks to "make a decision" guess what? The day I wanted was booked up.

You have to put it in writing and make it very clear that your preference is absolutely for an elective section. And copy your notes!

I had a bit of fun marking up the notes. You know where it sayd preferred position for delivery I said "flat on my back in the theatre". Where it said drugs, I said "yes please!" And so on...