How to get an elective c-section?

[islabonita]

Hello there Ladies.
Is it really possible to get an elective c-section without any "medical reasons" such as placenta previa etc. Is total panic towards childbirth good enough reason to get one?
Is there anyone who got a c-section just because they felt like it was right option for them?
How did you get it and how difficult it was to persuade the consultants?
thanks

[lulumama]

I had an em c.s after failed induction and failure to progress

if i had known then what i know now, i would have refused induction , refused an epidural and hired a doula.. and spent a lot more time educating myself about the birth process

time and time again, i hear the same story, induction, stuck on bed with epi, drip & CFM< immobile, failure to progress or slow labour with baby delivered with help of instruments or c.s

how do medics expect women to deliver naturally/ normally, when they spend their time labouring on a bed, not moving, going against the birth process

[lulumama]

Yes, sometimes intervention is undertaken because of fear of litigation, but those amongst you who have suffered intervention and ultimately have a heathy baby, would your cries not be greater if the intervention was delayed and the outcome was less favourable?




that is a really valid point, and i take that on board

however, my baby was at no point in distress , i was given a c.s for failure to progress, but CFM fine, and no indication of foetal distress at any point. due to epi, i was catheterised, and my urine was full of blood, therefore c.s was for my benefit.

what is often not taken into account are the emotional ramifications for the mother, of a c.s birth.

[lulumama]

surely a proportion of intervention is due to women being unable to mobilise as they need to, or being unsupported so opting for epi to take away the pain, rather than having someone by their side to reassure them and nurture them through the birth process....

i think it is safe to say that labouring on a bed, without moving, is not the most beneficial way to labor.

[NoNameToday]

Hi Lulumama

Take your point about your baby not being in distress, but, sadly, once you have been in labor ' so long' , then it becomes 'abnormal'.

That's where the issues arise, once the 'abnormality' has been documented/diagnosed, then there is deemed to be a necessity to intervene.

A lot of this has to do with the 'Changing Childbirth Document, which had its good points but sadly hasn't really made things an awful lot better for the average labouring mum.

[NoNameToday]

And yes, not mobilising in labour can and does contribute to problems, with or without epidural.

But, try explaining to a mum who has never met you, doesn't like the way you look, thinks she knows better 'cos she's read the book!' and it isn't always easy, whichever side you are sitting on.!

[NoNameToday]

I wish that all women could have a safe normal delivery of a healthy baby at term, but unfortunately that cannot always be the case.

Those amongst us who care about safe and rewarding childbirth must continue to do our best to promote this.

Where intervention is necessary then it is essential that this is diagnosed and acted upon properly and efficiently.

It is difficult to impart the knowledge gleaned thorough years of training and experience in the relatively short period of time that a woman is in that stage of labour when she needs that information., and no amount of prior knowledge can prepare someone.

[lulumama]

i just despair sometimes, that we (midwives, doulas, women who embrace the natural birth process ) are going to be seen as the 'odd ones out' in another 10 years.

i think that having the prior knowledge of the pros and cons of different pain relief, before you go into labour, the pros and cons of induction, would be a really big help, and allow women to make informed decisions.

you cannot know before the event how you will react, but once you have had one birth experience, then it will have a big impact on how you feel about further births.

i find the concept of someone being so frightened of their first birth, that they want to book a caesarean a very sad indictment of our NHS.. that women only hear the bad ,and fear the terrible outcomes, that are rare. and cannot contemplate even having a trial of labour

that really concerns me.

[fizzbuzz]

Lulumama, I don't think wanting a c-section is anything to do with NHS, or scare stories. It is to do with how people cope with new experiences, fear of the unkown etc. Sorry but no amount of education, or counselling would have changed my mind. I knew I wanted a c section, and that was the top and bottom of it.

My view of childbirth is mainly fear, as I cannot stand the feeling of your body taking over, which lead to a feeling of loss of control. Some people may welcome this, but I find it horrible. I made the right choice for me at the time

[lulumama]

fair enough

[NoNameToday]

I totally agree with and understand your feelings lulumama.
Unfortunately today, with the internet and other sources of information lots of mothers will read about the less than successful outcomes of labour.
The straightforward spontaneous vaginal deliveries with minimal pain relief do not make for good storytelling or front page tabloid features.
Perhaps that is what we should lobby for?, less promotion of scare stories and more coverage of waht really is the norm.

[lulumama]

can try lobbying, but sometimes, on here, when there have been threads about positive birth, you can be told off for being smug and rubbing peoples faces in it. can't win, sadly

[NoNameToday]

fizzbuz, I in no way condemn you for your choice of delivery, but may I ask out of interest if you are aware of how your feelings against a normal delivery arose?

I ask for my own information and respect your decision if you choose not to answer

[MrsTittleMouse]

Hi lulumama,
The thing is though, that a lot of women ARE smug about having a natural birth! I've had women do it to me, which is a bit galling as I had a supportive midwife and a determined attitude, and did everything "right", up to the point of coping with 2.5 days of early labour and 10 hours of active labour without any pain relief and being very active, even though it was a back labour and I was suffering. But I still had an instrument delivery. It was the same when I was TTC and had a load of friends coming up to me and telling me how they were pregnant first month trying with a look on their faces that said that it was obviously due to their superior lovemaking.
People who realise that it was a combination of luck and effort and who are very grateful I applaud. It just seems that the smug b* are much more common!

[lulumama]

well i have yet to see that smuggery in real life myself. just women who are rightly, and gloriously proud of what they and their bodies have achieved, but not for the purpose of belittling anyone else. that is just plain wrong. i am sorry you have had that. it must be awful

[NoNameToday]

I have been privileged to be involved in many births, some normal(as we perceive normal)
some difficult and some absolutely hair-raising.
I.m not ashamed to say that I told some of my labouring mums that

we don't give medals for bravery!

You don't get a better baby if you suffer!

Who truly knows what another person is feeling?

There are no rights and wrongs to pain relief, it is what is needed when it's needed

[fizzbuzz]

I was scared shitless throughout my entire first pregnancy, but I never talked about it.

The labour and susequent birth of my son was awful. He was back to back, I was in labour for 20 hours. When I first went in, they thought labour was progressing really fast as the contractions were so strong. In fact I hadn't even started to dialate, they continued at that strength through entire labour I was told.

As I wasn't dilating fast enough my waters were broken. This was very painful, and when it was happening I could hear screaming. I then realised it was me........

Ds was delivered by forceps after 2 failed attempts at ventouse. I thought I was dying throughout the whole thing, and felt more alone and isolated than I ever felt in my life However horrific as all that was, I found the after effects of an episiotomy was awful and really painful. I was way too scared to go to the loo.....so ended up being in hospital for much longer because of this

I was alos in bed for 3 weeks after as i was so exhausted by it, I was too weak to stand up ( I lost a lot of blood)

I was never goung to put myself through that again. A c-section was a breeeze compared to that. Despite the old wives tales, I have never forgotten one second of that experience. A c secton was like a holiday after that. Up and walking around much faster than before

[kittywits]

It's not being smug, I really disagree.

I had 2 sections and after my first vbac in particular I felt the biggest sense of achievment I have ever felt in my entire life so far. It's being smug, it'e being proud.

Why shouldn't women feel proud about giving birth vaginally?
In my personal expeience I found my sections unsatisfying experiences. I did not feel part of the births, I didn't take an active roll, all I did was lie there numb, whilst someone cut me open and took the babies out.
I accept that some women find that fine, I know that many women are not ok with it.

[kittywits]

sorry, I meant to say it's not being smug!

[lulumama]

that sounds absolutely awful, fizzbuzz

i am sorry you had such a difficult time, sounds like you were totally traumatised. did you talk it through with anyone afterwards?

i can understand why you would elect for a c.s second time

i have nothing against elective c.s per se, but as a default position for a first birth, i find it hard. but there is a lack of continous care antenatally, which would be of benefit to women to give them confidence before the birth.

[izyboy]

Fizzbuzz, that sounds like a really tough experience! Goodness I really feel for you!

Well, I have experienced a vag. delivery that many would describe as straightforward especially for a 1st timer with the baby in a back to back position.

I attended the NCT classes, fought off the obs who wanted to induce me at 40+1 days and gritted my teeth through 24 hours of labour with just gas and air.

I endured catheterisation and a threatened venteuse delivery plus second degree tear.

I and my gorgeous baby were completely 'knackered'. He had difficulty latching on to bf because of tiredness and we stayed in hospital for 3 days due to this.

The stitching hurt for months afterwards and I could hardly recall the birth because I was so exhausted.

Was I proud? Well I was just relieved that we were ok and in one piece. I think 'relieved' is definitely the word I would use to describe my feelings about the event.

I have subsequently lobbied my Obstetrician for an elective cs. I started the research when I was 6 weeks pregnant and presented him with a 3 page letter at my 20 week appointment.

He agreed to a date there and then and we had a very illuminating discussion about natural childbirth and the physiological reasons for incontinency as a result of this mode of delivery( especially for ladies in later life).

I do not wish to divulge any details regarding my reasons for an elective cs as I feel that they are pertinent to myself, my midwife, my DH and Obs only. I apologise if this seems a bit unhelpful.

However I did discover that a study for the British Journal of Psychiatry (2000) revealed:
' Women who got their preferred form of childbirth-usually caesarean section-tended to do much better after after birth. They were less likely to become depressed and bonded well with their babies.'

No, I did not read the entire study but this seemed to make sense to me and maybe the OP might feel the same way.

I would like to say to Kittywits and other vbacers I peruse your threads with interest and enjoy the opportunity to read differing opinions (esp. Lulu's which appears usually to be measured and well informed).

Just like to make up my own mind and expect this to be respected.

Some time ago I read the excellent 'The Weaker Vessel' by Antonia Fraser, (A woman's lot in seventeenth century England). The chapter entitled 'The pain and the Peril' reveals in detail how our ancestors felt about childbirth (clue in the chapter heading).

Reading it will make you glad that you live in the 21st Century and that we do have choice no matter how limited it may seem at times (at least we will not be subjected to cure by 'the pigeons' if something goes wrong).

It is not a recent occurence for women to be terrified of childbirth - it has always been the case and sometimes with good reason.

Anyway power to all you ladies about to give birth (by any way you wish) I hope you have satisfying experiences and speedy recoveries.

[fizzbuzz]

I read that book, and that report about c sections that you mentioned, even more fuel to the fire for me!

[Heated]

I had a very tough vb with my first child. I was sent away from the labour ward when I went in, having done most of my labouring at home with a tens machine, was told it would be hours yet but I was back within 2 hours having started pushing in the car! Told it was too late for pain relief, I then spent over 5 hours trying to push the baby out, 3rd degree tear (which I felt) and baby was born blue. Fortunately he was ok, but postnatally I tore again, kept in for 4 days since couldn't establish bf and then got a uterine infection probably from the scummy bath after giving birth. The birth, combined with a lonely maternity leave, and an unsettled baby contributed to pnd - something I only realised I'd had when I contrasted how I felt having had my 2nd.

To say that I feared giving birth again was an understatement! But unbenknowst to me, my vb had been labelled traumatic and my mw referred me to the consultant. Because I had suffered incontinence because of the tear, and because the consultant had to give 2 women colostomy bags that year, she advised an ec. However, my mw was horrified. Neither could advise me objectively I felt so in the end I did my own research and decided on the statistics. I found the caearean.org website and the radical midwives online site invaluable and it had links to the medical studies I needed.

In the end, I had a vb for my 2nd but it was with a guranteed epidural and it was fantastic: 5 hours, no pain & no medical problems and a very contented baby.

However, having researched further, if I went on to have a 3rd child, I would give serious thought to an ec. They certainly don't mention the bladder problems for women in their 50s and 60s due to vb, which I would be prone to having had some incontinence with the first mismanaged birth.

[kittywits]

heated, you had a traumatic time and I can nderstand your reasons for wanting a section. This issue I have is not with elective sections for second and subsequent births when the mother has medical reasons, but with women like the op for whom it is all theory.

[izyboy]

Even if, kitty, that 1st timer has thoroughly researched the subject and feels that an ec is what they want?

After all it would appear that personal choice (irrespective of experience)is the route to satisfaction.

[kittywits]

It bothers me though.