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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Original poster

Did you know you don't have to have VE's in labour?

248 replies

TheMule · 20/04/2015 21:48

Hi all. I've actually posted a media request too as I'm writing an article about consent in childbirth. I'm not getting much response so I hope you don't mind my asking here too. I'm just curious to know how many women are aware that they don't HAVE to have procedures such as vaginal exams in labour to check dilation - unless of course they want to. I often hear women express surprise when they are told that they are not compulsory. So I'd love to hear your thoughts or experiences on this or any other issue related to freedom or consent. eg if you did not know that you could decline, if you tried to decline but met resistance, or if you declined and wished you hadn't! Thanks for your thoughts everyone, I realise this is a sensitive topic. I'm writing for the Telegraph online. I'm Milli and I write about birth and run an organisation called The Positive Birth Movement. Email me if you don't want to comment [email protected]. Best wishes, Milli x

OP posts:
PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 21/04/2015 22:32

No medical procedure or exam is ever compulsory. Consent must always be given/gained. How can someone not know this?

There is a big difference between knowing that in theory, and applying it in practice when sleep deprived and/or scared and/or when pain relief is being made conditional on your agreement and/or when it is presented to you as inevitable.

itsatiggerday · 21/04/2015 22:33

I was one of those requesting it. I'm sure the MW thought things were progressing but she kept telling me I'd know when I was ready to push as it was my second, but I'd had an epidural in the first so had no idea what ready felt like.

And I would say 'I had to have an epidural' sometimes - but not because medics or midwives made me, rather because the circumstances of the delivery meant I needed one.

It's sometimes a fine line between encouraging women to be able to exercise choice for themselves and implying that the staff overwhelmingly have an inappropriate agenda and don't advise in an effort to care for their patients.

weeblueberry · 21/04/2015 22:35

I was clearly asked consent every time I had an internal. To the point that for the last one when I was 10cm I just preempted her and said 'yes yes just do it!!' Blush

StarlightMcKenzee · 21/04/2015 22:40

I don't doubt staff mostly make decisions in order to care for their patients. But some decisions that patients can be encouraged to make mean that they are able to spread their care across more women who need them, and some hospitals are set up with the expectation that they do this and schedule the staffing to reflect it.

There is nothing wrong with wanting VEs. However, again I have no idea why women have to get into a battle with their caregivers to get one. Do it yourself. It isn't hard.

For my 3rd birth my fingers were always up there out of curiosity and I wish I'd done it for my others. Why do women detach themselves from their labouring bodies so?

Noideaatall · 21/04/2015 22:49

My midwife insisted that I had to be examined, although we tried to say no. But she wouldn't give in - she said as she'd just come on shift she had to check everyone. I was trying to hypnobirth - but this prevented me from using the techniques that had worked so well with my previous child as it was a crucial time & she just broke my focus completely. She then got really angry with my partner over it and then later refused to come for hours in the induction ward when we were calling and calling for her - we could see her sitting outside at the desk. I ended up going through my entire labour in the induction ward, finally giving birth with no pain relief at all, pretty much in the corridor on the way to the labour room because she just refused to come over. It was a terrible experience. (I did make a complaint - for what it was worth.)

avocadotoast · 21/04/2015 22:51

Starlight, I think that's a little unfair. My experience within pregnancy so far has been that if you want anything beyond "normal" medicalised treatment you really have to go out of your way to find it. It's difficult to know where to start; there's a lot of information out there and it's hard to know what you can trust.

It's not really any wonder that women are "detached" during labour when that's exactly what society teaches from day one (and before; how many people feel comfortable with their own bodies on an everyday basis, whether pregnant or not?).

StarlightMcKenzee · 21/04/2015 23:01

What's unfair about what I said? You said it too. It took me until baby 3 to be that comfortable and I feel that quite shocking and something that needs to be changed in our culture if women are to have any control over their care and their outcomes.

Sparklingbrook · 21/04/2015 23:04

There are so many variables. From NHS Trust to which hospital to which HCPs and most of all which Mother to be.

Everyone's experience is different surely?

Sparklingbrook · 21/04/2015 23:08

Sorry if that sounds a bit 'duh of course' but you know what I mean hopefully. Smile

HexagonAlley · 21/04/2015 23:15

I have vaginismus. I specifically stated no VE on birth plan. No one looked at birth plan or cared. Again they refused pain relief unless I let them do it. They were so arsey about it. When I tried to explain about vaginismus and my fears they mocked me and said 'well you has sex didn't you?!' (It was only the 3rd time we had had vaginal penetration in about 3 years so actually no it want as simple as that)

My pain threshold is so low I just let them do it because I was so desperate for the pain relief. Then a doctor did it then a mw again then my waters broken. I went from not wanting any to having about 6. Then a failed ventouse and forceps. Horrific experience. It's taken me 5 years to get pregnant again because of it.

nickelbarapasaurus · 21/04/2015 23:35

i had a asimilar stupid comment when i had a smear.
the nurse hurt me with the metal clamp thing and i complained.
she just went (snarky cow) "well, you've had sex haven't you!"
and i said (angrily) "but he doesn't put metal up me!!"

some compassion wouldn't go amiss Angry

NeedABumChange · 21/04/2015 23:39

Of course everyone knows. We don't live in nazi Germany, the state can't force medical procedures on you unless in extreme circumstances. You don't have to give birth in a hospital at all.

rockybalboa · 21/04/2015 23:56

When I had DS3 (at home) I was most surprised that the MW didn't want to do any VE. She said she didn't need to! DS2 fell out about 5 mins after walking into delivery and I had about 50 million VE's from numerous people with DS1 whilst epiduralled up to the eyeballs so didn't really care. Hence my surprise with DS3.

22Dee · 22/04/2015 00:08

watching this thread. very interesting

mamadoc · 22/04/2015 00:13

Well I do know now as I managed to give birth to DS without having any!

I had him in a MLBU and on arriving there I asked when they were going to do it (I assumed it was standard and necessary) and the midwife said 'oh we don't really do that unless there's a problem'

So she didn't do it. She gave me tea and toast instead which was a lot nicer. Bounced on my ball, went for a little walk and then I gave birth to him about 4 hours later without her really touching me at all until right at the end. I nearly forgot to take my knickers off in fact. No pain relief required despite him being back to back.

When I'd had Dd I had at least 2VEs and was wired up to a CTG and a drip permanently, had my waters broken, made to lie on my back. I accepted all this as normal and I wouldn't say it was a bad birth. It was just a completely different experience.

SantasLittleMonkeyButler · 22/04/2015 00:26

Yes, I know that you can refuse to consent. I didn't refuse though - in all three of my labours I assumed that the trained midwife and/or consultant knew more about the safe way to deliver a baby than me. I would have viewed refusing permission as obstructing them TBH.

Interestingly, in a large hospital employing many midwives, DS1 & DD were delivered by the exact same lady in the exact same delivery room. 14 years apart too.

JasperDamerel · 22/04/2015 00:27

With DC1 I stated in my birth plan the circumstances in which I would permit VEs. The midwives respected that. Second time round I had a water birth with independent midwives and the only time they went near my vagina was to check if I'd torn, and even then I was the one doing the touching while the midwife just looked.

Toothfairy87 · 22/04/2015 07:34

hexagonalley I am the same!! So happy to know I'm not the only one ( because I used to feel very silly ) ... I have vaginismus and it's painful... Not just a bit of discomfort, but actually painful and very nearly intolerable actually to have internal exams ... I relaxed my body and tried the very best I could but I could not have a smear test because of it and they had to sedate me instead to do this .. I felt awful...I know what you mean by 'but you've had sex' ... Well yes but it's different isn't it?! Very different in fact.. I think that's what personally upsets me about VEs , just because of how uncomfortable they are in general really. However that said, needs must really so if it's necessary then I would always do what's best for the situation ... I think it's just a bit of compassion that's important because everybody is so different - we aren't all the same and neither are our bodies... Everyone has to be treated individually

Toothfairy87 · 22/04/2015 07:37

jasper that sounds like a really nice experience for you... That makes me happy to read that... I am expecting my first and wish ideally for a water birth ( but we will see if it's available when the time comes ) and nice to know you must have felt in control

JasperDamerel · 22/04/2015 07:41

"In control" isn't really how I would describe the experience Smile
More like fierce and overwhelming. But I was able to get on with it without interference which was very lovely.

Toothfairy7 · 22/04/2015 07:45

jasper haha... Ok maybe not then :) but good for you anyhow... Sounds quite okay :)

5madthings · 22/04/2015 07:50

I know now but didn't when I had ds1 they were just presented ad part of the birth process. I had a Dr do one with no warning, afterwards the midwife apologised. I also had one on the ward when being induced and another staff member just pulled the curtain back whilst the midwife had her hand up my fanjo so all around got a good view! Again the midwife apologised.

I was much more forthright with my next four labour's, basically I hate to be touched when in labour. I had to be induced with all my babies so some were necessary but they were down when I was ready an stopped if I said stop etc.

QuietNinjaTardis · 22/04/2015 08:02

My first birth I wasn't really aware but they did get consent for ve. Wish I hadn't had to have them but ds got stuck. My second I was aware but when I got to the lovely birth centre they said they didn't do them unless I requested one or they suspected there was a problem.
I had one at my request and that's before I went into full labour. I arrived at the birth centre the second time almost ready to push so no need for one. Midwife didn't touch me at all until after I'd given birth which was great.
It makes me so sad to hear some of these stories. Why are women in labour treated as sub human when they are in pain, possibly scared when they should be treated with the utmost respect for what their bodies are doing?

Toothfairy7 · 22/04/2015 08:11

Well said quietninja :( it's making me frightened!

AndSheRose · 22/04/2015 08:39

I think I was asking for them both times, by way of an 'update'. I didn't find them intrusive or especially painful, and I think they must have asked and I agreed rather than told me. I found them useful barometers of if/how things were moving along and allowed me to decide whether I wanted pain relief or not (ie after x hours of contractions, if I was only 2 cm dilated I would want some support but if I was 9cm I could endure it a bit longer). It seems everyone has a different experience and view on this and it pays to be prepared to exercise your own will.