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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Original poster

Did you know you don't have to have VE's in labour?

248 replies

TheMule · 20/04/2015 21:48

Hi all. I've actually posted a media request too as I'm writing an article about consent in childbirth. I'm not getting much response so I hope you don't mind my asking here too. I'm just curious to know how many women are aware that they don't HAVE to have procedures such as vaginal exams in labour to check dilation - unless of course they want to. I often hear women express surprise when they are told that they are not compulsory. So I'd love to hear your thoughts or experiences on this or any other issue related to freedom or consent. eg if you did not know that you could decline, if you tried to decline but met resistance, or if you declined and wished you hadn't! Thanks for your thoughts everyone, I realise this is a sensitive topic. I'm writing for the Telegraph online. I'm Milli and I write about birth and run an organisation called The Positive Birth Movement. Email me if you don't want to comment [email protected]. Best wishes, Milli x

OP posts:
TheRestofmylifeiswaiting · 21/04/2015 21:45

This reply has been deleted

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PotteringAlong · 21/04/2015 21:46

I knew. I said no. The midwife said "ok then" and I never had one. No problem, no drama.

nickelbarapasaurus · 21/04/2015 21:51

However, i have to add that the language that the care providers use does make women believe they don't have a choice - "we just have to do this"
"we won't let you do this"
"you have to let us do this before we can give you this"
"i'm just going to do this"
"we book you in for induction at 40+10"
"you just have to have this scan"

That's worse than women not knowing they have the choice.

And WE get treated like we're idiots because we refuse.

example 1 - i knew i would refuse induction, but i was told that they book my appointment (i have no choice in this!) and i just have to ring on the day to say i'm declining - and then i got the 3rd degree by the supervisor of midwives for my decisions.
example 2 - i refused induction, i went in for expectant management (ahead of NICE guidelines recommendations) and was told by the registrar that i was going to kill my baby by not having an induction. (i got a written apology for that little hysteric outburst)
example 3 - my hospital was a research hospital and i said i agreed for my scan details to be used in research. I wasn't happy to have a cervical scan. i let them do it on scan 1, but on scan 2, i refused as i hadn't been comfortable last time and i felt it awful, intrsuive and unnecessary. they quickly told me i had to do it, then once i wouldn't back down, they finished my appointment very quickly and didn't give me all of the photographs i paid for (the first scan, they gave me loads of photos and spent ages talking over this that and the other)
example 4 - i had a homebirth and they kept telling me that i had to come in because they didn't have staff, and that i couldn't have a homebirth. i got my friend (MW in another trust) to get a release from her hospital to attend my birth and then i was inundated with midwives. They were very insistent that i had to come in to the hospital.

Sparklingbrook · 21/04/2015 21:51

I knew but I trusted the midwife to do whatever was necessary to get baby out safely, so if she wanted to do a VE it was ok with me.

TheWhiteRoad · 21/04/2015 21:52

I knew I could refuse them. I was well aware that it was my body and that they needed my consent etc.

But then when I was in labour and in pain and vulnerable and the midwife was saying I couldn't be admitted to the delivery suite unless I had a VE (despite my contractions bring 3 minutes apart) I gave in. Bottom line is that I didn't want her fingers in my vagina but I felt bullied into it. Not nice.

BeatriceBumble · 21/04/2015 21:55

You are fooling yourself if you think that MW or doctiors take any notice of consent. You cannot have pain relief or move to a labour ward unless you have a VE. If you refuse, they will do them anyway when they think you won't notice. "Can I take a little look" means a full hand up to your cervix. They will perform sneaky sweeps to hurry you along. They will break your waters, without telling you what they are doing.

You are at their mercy as soon as you engage with them.

avocadotoast · 21/04/2015 22:01

I didn't know this, and I'm glad I read this as I'm 36 weeks pregnant with my first baby.

I'll certainly be making DH very aware of this too, just in case I end up not being able to argue my corner sufficiently.

IdaClair · 21/04/2015 22:01

I got pain relief without a VE. I was admitted to labour ward without a VE (albeit not in a full term live birth situation)

GraysAnalogy · 21/04/2015 22:04

I knew I could decline but know it's an important part of observation during labour. It's not pleasant, but it's not supposed to be.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 21/04/2015 22:06

It isn't always important though. Sometimes it tells you very little. It can give important information, which isn't the same

IdaClair · 21/04/2015 22:09

And it can do harm.

Which is never mentioned.

GraysAnalogy · 21/04/2015 22:12

How do you know if it's going to give important information of not then penguins if it isn't done? Genuine question.

StarlightMcKenzee · 21/04/2015 22:14

It's not an important part of 'normal' labour. It's a convenient part of managing patients in labour with minimal staffing ratios.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 21/04/2015 22:17

Well, there are times you might known there is an issue. Like something not feeling right when pushing and an exam showing a cervical lip.

But there is nothing inherently useful about knowing how dilated you are now as opposed to three hours ago. Far more women than is publicised dilate irregularly. Just 'checking progress ' means very little. It tells you nothing about progress 10 minutes after that.

Koalafications · 21/04/2015 22:18

Yes, I am aware that I can decline VE.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 21/04/2015 22:18

And what Starlight said.Smile

StarlightMcKenzee · 21/04/2015 22:18

It doesn't ever give important information on its own. All it tells the midwife is how dilated you are. Not how dilated you were, or how dilated you will be in an hour, or how far along you are, or even when you are likely to give birth.

If you had been in painful labour for an extended period of time, or had some strange pains, or perhaps some strange observations then the information can assist to build up the picture of what is happening.

But when all is happening is normal labour, it risks infection and interference, and bringing the mother out of her coping zone for no reason other than to enable the midwife to chart her without getting to know her, and set a timetable with alarms that trigger interventions which have no evidence-base for being used purely for dilation rates.

Toothfairy87 · 21/04/2015 22:20

Are there any midwives here? A midwife must surely know just how necessary these really are and when... I mean I would always want what's essential or the best for baby and me but I cannot stand VEs and it's nice to have some idea because we don't get told these things really do we

StarlightMcKenzee · 21/04/2015 22:20

And what Penguin said. Smile

neverevernorever · 21/04/2015 22:22

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StarlightMcKenzee · 21/04/2015 22:23

A midwife is bound by the policy of the hospital. And by the expected routine/turnover/ accountability to their line-managers.

However, the law trumps all of that.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 21/04/2015 22:23

I would add that, in my first labour, being 'only' 3cm was given as a reason to be dismissive of my pain and exhaustion (I had had 3 hours of sleep over 60 hours at that point). To decide to leave the room and me alone for another 2 hours. To refuse any form of pain relief. To tell me (not suggest) that they would break my waters.

My next two birth plans said that I would only consent to VE's if the reasons were explained to me and there were concerns that either I or my baby were at risk.

DixieNormas · 21/04/2015 22:25

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StandoutMop · 21/04/2015 22:27

I knew I could decline but am the sort of person who assumes something a medical professional is suggesting is likely to be helpful / worthwhile so didn't.

That said, only had 1 VE in 3 labours and no other interventions. Had I had a different birth experience, maybe I would have a different view of interventions and their value.

crapfatbanana · 21/04/2015 22:30

No medical procedure or exam is ever compulsory. Consent must always be given/gained. How can someone not know this?