Midwife didn't listen.

[obeliaboo]

Not intending to drip feed, but i dont particulary feel like reliving the entirity of my labour experience either, in established labour for 6 hours, one hour of pushing.
Midwives shift changed in the middle, as in one got me half way through, clocked off and another took over. Is this normal?
This second midwife, had me push for an hour, even with me screaming, that i could not, not for lack of trying or not wanting to, she insisted and bullied that i could and must - led to an episiotomy and ventouse delivery, which then led to an strep b infection not picked up on for 4 days despite obvious pain.

I was screaming and she just kept telling me to push. 7llb 11oz baby, 36cm head, 9 days early, spontaneous labour, gas & air.
On my back, refused epidural, never offered at any point, diamorphine as though there were no other option and it only touched the surface, episiotomy and ventouse, with a room of 7 people in the end - i didnt want any of that, ever and i was cornered into it at my most vunerable when i clearly should have had a section as i was struggling to deliver. Bar the anaesthetic for the episiotomy, i felt fucking everything.
He didnt want to come naturally, he was too big, i did not want that kind of intervention and i have really fucking suffered as a result, im just refusing to admit it aloud.

I wanted gas & air, pool, epidural - i wasnt even asked, i was just left lying there screaming, and i am not the kind of woman to scream in pain. I wasn't expecting it to be easy, i didnt have list of demands. I wasn't listened to.
Postnatally i was admitted to a bay of high dependancy section mums.

Advice?

Complain. Someone will be along soon with more helpful details but as a student midwife I want to apologise that you had this experience. I feel for you, what a terrible experience to go through. Do you have friends/family around that can help you out? I hope you are feeling improved. And congratulations on your baby - don't let anyone say all that matters is that they are healthy and here. Your feelings do matter, a lot. There will be a phone number for the supervisor of midwives somewhere, keep me informed, I'm with you in spirit.

No advice as such. Just wanted to give you a hug.
I have been there, with the shift rotation, had 4 over a bank hol.
I have had ventouse and episotomy. Ventouse twice.
I have had a stage 2 rectal tear, now a prolapse, due to being to push and to breathe or my baby would be starved of oxygen. Such a bitch.
I am not over any of my births but counselling is not an option for me right now.
You could:
ask to see your notes, ask for a follow-up, report the mw
get som post trauma counselling
insist on an elective cs for future children
get checked for PND PTSD and appropriate anti depressants
talk it out on here some more
But I feel for you and I know where you are right now, I really do
You need chance to heal, I hope your dp is patient and put your energies into the little one, it isn't their fault nor yoursthat your experience was a brutal one. Sending you hugs from afar. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I am sorry I can only send typed flowers and kisses. It seems very lame in the circumstances.
But you are not alone OP and please please don't try and bottle it up, be stoic and suffer in silence. That way madness lies. Let it out and talk it out.

I'm sorry you feel you had a rough time of things, it's horrible feeling that everything is out of your control. I think you can ask for someone at the hospital to talk through the birth with you amd explain what happened.

The shift change is normal, and 7lb 11oz is about average I think, someone else with more experience should come along soon but my first thoughts are that some of what you descibe is pretty normal - you were able to birth naturally so a section wasn't needed, gas and air only is normal for some women too (both of mine were delivered with only gas and air), there may have been a reason an epidural wasn't an option. Congratulaltions on your baby and I hope you can find some resolution and peace

You should complain via PALS (assuming you're in the UK) and ask for a debrief.
I feel so sorry for you, it shouldn't have been such an ordeal for you, it really shouldn't!
YOu need to talk it out - after the debrief, seek counselling, or at least some group chat so you can talk about it - as others have said, you can't and mustn't bottle it up.

Even this thread will help you - but you need the debrief from the hospital/ staff, and you should put in the complaint. When you're ready, speak to PALS at the hospital (or area) to see how to progress.

Your hospital should have a debrief service to go through your notes with you. You can also speak to a Supervisor of Midwives, who will listen to you and take forward any issues you have. It may be that there were reasons why certain things happened which you might find useful to know (even if the communication was appalling).

You can also complain to the hospital - you should be able to find the complaints procedure on their website (but do this after your debrief if you want one - once you've made a formal complaint it is harder for the midwives to speak informally to you).

You can also contact PALS at your hospital if you feel the hospital have failed to address your concerns.

You need a debrief. Contact the hospital.
Did you have anyone with you as a birthing partner? If you didn't want a roomful why didn't they speak up?
I'm afraid pushing for an hour isn't all that unusual. I did with my first. (He was back to back).
Shift changes happen. I'm afraid MWs do have to leave when their shift ends.
Do you mean you were refused an epidural or it wasn't offered? I'm confused.

Wolfie, unfortunately having a ventouse delivery often automatically leads to a room full of people, each with a specific role to play. Understanding who they all were and why they were there is the sort of thing a debrief can help with.

Anotehr vote for asking to speak the senior midwife in charge of PALS and patient debriefs. Hugely informative with - hopefully - empathetic midwives. Ours came out to see us at home (horror show birth..) and I wanted to hug her at the end, she was so lovely and supportive.

What made you feel he was too big to deliver?

She said refused. I can only assume that she was already too far dilated/mw thought it was too late/birth wasn't expected to stall/need intervention.
OP with my first I begged for a section but they wouldn't, the head was already part way down, it would have meant pushing her back up again.
I gave you options above but never told you what I did as I was already projecting much.

I did the debrief but as it was heading along the lines of did I blame my baby no I blame you lot! was I bonded with my baby etc I decided the cost of me complaining about what was deemed to be normal was too high for me.

I did not get counselling, I vented to anyone who would listen and had an obsession with reading about births, fissures etc for a long long time.

I did not give birth again for many many years, deliberately. I did not push for a section with dc2 and 3 because I am not in the UK and did not want to fight the bureaucracy here, ditto counselling as not in English. This was a mistake as a natural birth with my third and no pain relief whatsoever nearly broke me.

I did seek help for depression but did not want meds as ebf. I was referred for a psychiatric evaluation where he deemed me reasonable and not crazy but at this point I felt the concerns were veering around potential child protection issues rather than protecting me so as they could only offer meds and nothing practical...no surestart, or visitor/mentor/helper or CBT or anything, I walked away (this was many years back, hope it would be different now).

You can go for a debriefing but it might not give you closure.
Physically after my first I healed eventually, some physical 'hot spots' but I survived. Second one I survived but blamed myself for the ventouse because I insisted on epidural which slowed things down. Third one I realised I am not a natural pusher. No urge to push, just to die. The stress of course makes labour harder as it slows things/inhibits progress. I know all this now but it does not heal me. All I can say is that I have three children with big heads who one way or another I brought unto this world. That is what I cling onto. I suspect thIs won't be helping I am sorry truly. I will watch this thread and see what others say. An hour's pushing sadly was the norm

Ps they will only give you a section if baby is in distress. What your baby's heart rate dropping?

To clarify, my first was UK...the above debrief was UK.
(2 and 3 not UK)
I hope you get some solid support.
Also after dc1 TMI I had sex too soon...for me anyway, six weeks after.
Go easy on yourself love.

I'm sorry but it sounds like a pretty normal labour
Your baby was not that big, pushing for an hour is normal, people scream in labour - all totally normal
You're upset about the whole thing though so you should definitely speak to a midwife/GP about how you're feeling and they can help you through it
Everybody suggesting you complain, I'm not seeing anything that needs complaining about? Honestly a labour didn't go to plan, it's hardly a rare thing is it?!

I am guessing the head circumference 36cm made it feel harder.I don't know the average, all mine were that and I was told it was fairly big
My first's heart rate was fluctuating, cord round neck, did ventouse anyway. I assume it's quicker to do ventouse/forceps than to do a emcs
Sorry OP have hijacked your thread and now answering for youwhich is a huge no-no. Am off to make a brew myself.Come back when you can to let us know how you are.

I have 2 relatives who really should have had a csection's but were kept in Labour for ages then all hell broke loose at the last minute, one tore and had help getting baby out but had to be put back together in surgery, as a result she won't be able to deliver naturally again. The other one they said there was no way the baby would have come out naturally after being in Labour for hours and her begging for a c section. Que code red, emergency delivery, both were big babies, diabetes and they knew they would be big.
Thank god the babies were ok.

I have had 2 labors where the midwives changed shifts, luckily i ended up both times with a better one but had 2 missed back to back babies, DD1 the second midwife realised when she come on shift but not before the first midwife had told me to stop being soft, take some paracetamol and go home, this is the part no one tell's you about.... 3 times Gave birth 2 hrs after being admitted with gas and air, dd3 i knew as soon as Labour she was back to back but midwife wouldn't have it, new one who came on shift said yes your right. DD2 was a normal straightforward 4 hr labour after induction. DD1 and 2 both 13 hours.

• sorry for typos, must start proof reading my posts

I agree on the debrief.. They can help if you're feeling traumatised. What you've described sounds like a normal, expected labour but it's obvious that it's stayed with you.

I'm too confused about the epidural thing.. did you ask for one before transition? Or a pool? You can't have both together and it depends on if a pool is available. Was your birth plan followed did your birth partner stick up for you during your distress?

Did you ask for anything you wanted? It wouldn't have been offered before you reached full dilation? After that it would have been too late and pushing was the only option unless the baby was in distress.

I was going I really was.
Here's the thing. Even if it was a pretty normal labour.
What one person copes with and 'forgets about within a day or two' ha fucking ha can be absolutely brutaland traumatic for someone else and it can take years not to have flashbacks etc
There is a reason many female obgyns opt for elcs themselves having seen the damage to women through the course of their career.
What makes a huge difference is having some feeling of being heard, ofbeing understood, of knowing what is happening and why even if you have no control over it.
If the mw was very very practical, push, get on with it, with very little empathy and it was bullying as opposed to encouraging, that isvery hard to take or come to terms with and maybe she needs help with her bedside manner.
I have had some lovely mw and I have had two who I would not wish on my worst enemy. I guess it is like teachers and different learning styles

Sorry, that was to bluebananas. My formatting is going to shit. Chase me off the thread if I come back again...

A debrief would help you. Midwives have to change shifts, and it is upsetting if one you like disappears. I had bad experiences with people during delivery. Sometimes though, really what matters an awful lot is the wellbeing of both mother and baby. Water births are not a priority if for instance there is fetal distress or an emergency section is on the cards - the priority is getting baby out. I'm sorry about Group B Strep I fully back the charity gbss.org.uk/ which may be of interest to you to read later. Im not lessening your experience, so do perhaps write down your experience in a letter to send to PALS, or make contact with them somehow to ask whether you may be able to have a debrief, or see records, or even ask your MW GP or HV for some assistance.

7lb11 is not a big baby although it feels like it at the time, mine were 7lb11, 7lb1 and 6lb13, the 2 that got stuck were over 10lb. i don't think anything prepares you for the pain, my friend when i said does it hurt she said yes it f**king does, its the worst pain you will go through, nothing i can describe is close to it, everyone else just said it's fine, you forget about it afterwards. It is such a shock how painful it is, DC3 was the worst probably because i knew she was back to back and i was in terrible pain, i forgot how bad it was especially after DC2 as she was a breeze compared to DC1

I know exactly how you feel! I was induced so I already knew my entire birth plan was out the window. I ended up with a forceps delivery and an episiotomy- something I still believe shouldn't have happened. I lost 700ml of blood and couldn't properly care for DS. My notes said DS went into distress but they never said anything to us about it, even DH said DS wasn't in distress. I did have an epidural, had to beg for it, so even if you had one you probably still would have had the episiotomy. If babies head was already in the birth canal then c-section is out of the question, or so I'm told.

Episiotomys are horrible. Had mine little over two weeks ago, was only told to wash it and low and behold my stitches came out by the end of the first week, now I'm left to 'heal' naturally. Told to 'keep my legs closed', because clearly I don't have a baby to look after. Advice: don't sit to long, lay on your side. Air the area out when you can. Pat dry, don't wipe (something I was never told).

I'm sorry for what you went through, best of luck to you

I know exactly how you feel! I was induced so I already knew my entire birth plan was out the window. I ended up with a forceps delivery and an episiotomy- something I still believe shouldn't have happened. I lost 700ml of blood and couldn't properly care for DS. My notes said DS went into distress but they never said anything to us about it, even DH said DS wasn't in distress. I did have an epidural, had to beg for it, so even if you had one you probably still would have had the episiotomy. If babies head was already in the birth canal then c-section is out of the question, or so I'm told.

Episiotomys are horrible. Had mine little over two weeks ago, was only told to wash it and low and behold my stitches came out by the end of the first week, now I'm left to 'heal' naturally. Told to 'keep my legs closed', because clearly I don't have a baby to look after. Advice: don't sit to long, lay on your side. Air the area out when you can. Pat dry, don't wipe (something I was never told).

I'm sorry for what you went through, best of luck to you

I'm sorry sounds to me like it was a pretty normal delivery especially if it was your 1st. 1 hour pushing is actually quite good (I was pushing for 2.5 with my 1st also ended up with ventouse & episiotomy ). It's very common to change midwives if their shift ends. You say you were not offered an epidural - did you ask for an epidural??? If you asked when you was fully dilated by the time they got an anaesthetist got the epidural and gave it time to work this would've been longer than the hour you pushed the baby out. The midwife isn't going to keep asking if your pain relief is enough it's up to you to say you need something extra, if you did and she didn't give you anything I suspect you was too far on for anything else to take effect. You told you couldn't do it - every woman in labour says they can't do it and is in agony she'll of heard that a million times before she can't say to everyone who says that ok we'll give you a section it doesn't work like that. As prev pp said it could've possibly meant baby needed to be pushed back up the birth canal to have a section you'd probably be in a lot more pain now if you'd of had the section. You told you couldn't do it - you did do it be bloody proud of yourself!!! I feel you may need a little counselling to discuss your thoughts on the birth but as far as I can see your midwife did everything right she got your baby out the safest way she could it's just unfortunate you was in pain. Tip for next time - ASK FOR AN EPIDURAL EARLY ON