Midwife didn't listen.

[obeliaboo]

Not intending to drip feed, but i dont particulary feel like reliving the entirity of my labour experience either, in established labour for 6 hours, one hour of pushing.
Midwives shift changed in the middle, as in one got me half way through, clocked off and another took over. Is this normal?
This second midwife, had me push for an hour, even with me screaming, that i could not, not for lack of trying or not wanting to, she insisted and bullied that i could and must - led to an episiotomy and ventouse delivery, which then led to an strep b infection not picked up on for 4 days despite obvious pain.

I was screaming and she just kept telling me to push. 7llb 11oz baby, 36cm head, 9 days early, spontaneous labour, gas & air.
On my back, refused epidural, never offered at any point, diamorphine as though there were no other option and it only touched the surface, episiotomy and ventouse, with a room of 7 people in the end - i didnt want any of that, ever and i was cornered into it at my most vunerable when i clearly should have had a section as i was struggling to deliver. Bar the anaesthetic for the episiotomy, i felt fucking everything.
He didnt want to come naturally, he was too big, i did not want that kind of intervention and i have really fucking suffered as a result, im just refusing to admit it aloud.

I wanted gas & air, pool, epidural - i wasnt even asked, i was just left lying there screaming, and i am not the kind of woman to scream in pain. I wasn't expecting it to be easy, i didnt have list of demands. I wasn't listened to.
Postnatally i was admitted to a bay of high dependancy section mums.

Advice?

Just to add I very much doubt any one has it in the birth plan that they want intervention - no one wants it if you don't need it. Sometimes it's just the safest way to get your baby out they certainly wouldn't do it if it wasn't nessasary and also they give an episiotomy to avoid you tearing really bad which would be worse.

Just to be clear, I'm really sorry you feel traumatised by your birth experience. It can be a massive shock and very unpleasant and intrusive. I don't think anyone is dismissing that you have the right to feel upset and disappointed.
I just think that in your op it comes across that you feel you weren't given proper medical care and I'm just wondering what's made you feel that way?

Sorry you've had such a hard time op. It sounds like you had a fairly normal, if instrumental delivery, your baby isn't big and 6 hours established labour is usual for a first I think. This doesn't make it less traumatic for you. I had my labour augmented with a drip (had been in labour for 24 hours after waters going but not progressed enough). Ds was also back to back and I was in agony. I still wake up at night thinking of the pain. I was also given diamorphine which just made me feel like I was in a glass box. I begged for an epidural but was told that I was "not even really in labour", this was when contracting every 2 minutes. 4 horrific hours later ds was born.
In my case the care was ok (not great but no one's getting sued, me and ds were fine) but the staff were, frankly shit. Talking about me in front of me, ignoring me (especially after the diamorphine, they seemed to think they'd actually knocked me out), generally treating me like a piece of meat on a bed. I'm pregnant again and am going to have a discussion about it with my mw this time around. Sometimes though, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, birth is hard, and painful, and out of your control. Were you refused an epidural? Under what circumstances? Would you have preferred a section?? When you say that you didn't want "that kind of intervention" I'm not sure what you mean??

it's awful when caregivers don't listen. I hope you find a way to sort out how you feel about it all. I'm still going through all my issues from DCs 1 and 2, DC3 due in July and we've chosen to go for a home birth and to only ring midwife when I'm in transition. I can't trust my local hospital after the last two births at all. Hugs xx

Sorry you had a hard time OP but I do agree with others that is does sound pretty normal to me.
They won't do a section if you can deliver 'naturally' and you were in spontaneous labour, in some cases section would be worse as if baby is too far down the birth canal they would have to be pushed back up.
Did you as for epidural or just wait and hope it was offered?
Your baby also sounds a fairly normal size to me - mine was 9lb (I'm fairly small) and he was safely delivered with forceps.
I agree with others that a debrief sounds like it will help you. I hope you feel better about things soon and are able to enjoy your lovely baby

sounds a similar experience to mine, refused an epidural then had the gas and air removed, forced on to my back and placed in stirrups told to push or be cut .

I wasn't getting the urge to push with my contractions was in so much pain I was confused.

I am sorry what you went through.

I think you need a debrief. And part of that will be to separate the normal from the not. For example, pushing for an hour is normal on a first baby. It isn't in and of itself and indication for a section. It doesn't sound like he was particularly 'too big' either, which you seem to feel (bar abnormal physiology in you). Shift changes are normal. Lots of people in the room for ventouse is normal (they each have a role) - was that not explained at classes, because if it wasn't you should complain about that to whoever ran them. But other things - like the lack of compassion - are not.

I'm also not clear about epidural - did you ask for one and were refused? What reason was given?

I am sorry that you had such a bad experience.

But in all honesty, I can't see what was especially abnormal.

With my first labour, she was back to back, and I pushed from 8 am until she was born at 11am. I had no pain relief except gas and it fucking hurt, but I never asked for an epidural.

With my second labour I was induced and I had great pain relief, but one of the midwives fucked up and turned the drip too high too quick, and by the time I asked for an epidural I was pushing and the emergency button was pressed because the midwife in charge of my care didn't know the drip had been turned up and wasn't expecting it to be happening so fast, cue a room full of people, and a ventouse delivery while my pain relief ran out and I almost passed out from the pain.

Every woman goes into labour wanting a calm and intervention free experience. But the window for an epidural can be small, and sometimes intervention is needed. I am not sure why you couldn't push, but screaming in pain was just wasting your pushing energy.

Ask for a debrief, and write down all that you want to ask so you don't forget anything.

Sorry you had a tough time OP.

My labour was very similar to you, if that helps at all?! 20 hours, 1.5 hours pushing, ventouse delivery, episiotomy, back to back labour, screaming from about 8cms onwards, and baby 8.8lbs.

I felt utterly shocked by it for a few months afterwards and in retrospect I think it affected that initial time with my lovely ds. BUT I have moved on from it and do intend to have another child now (at first I thought never, ever again!) I think i've just put it into context of at least I got my beautiful baby out of it and also I'm fairly certain there was no failure of care involved. It's just the way it was for me.

I agree with pp re debrief. I will have one when I'm pg again so I can get clear in my head what happened and what, if anything, I can do next time to try and make things better.

Congratulations on your dc.

I had similar op and whilst yes, it's a "normal" birth as births go (mine was 9lb 4oz and I pushed for 2hrs before an episiotomy that then fell apart and got infected and hurt for almost a year after) it can still be very traumatizing for some people. I had PTSD from mine wheras others just forgot about it and even had more. I'd never ever consider another one purely because of my experience and DS is 4 now! And I can't watch One Born Every Minute without getting panicky wheras most of my friends with kids love it. So just because it was fairly standard doesn't mean you're being silly or overreacting

I had counselling and that helped me a lot but maybe do some research into ways of processing what happened to you and see what you think would suit you best. It all depends on the individual.

They even said to me after I was cut and he was STILL taking ages that I should've had a c-section but a fat lot of good that was by that point

Sorry to hear that you have suffered birth trauma.

It sounds like you had expectations of a certain type of birth, which then didn't happen.

I'm a bit confused when you say you planned a pool and an epidural. As far as I know you can't have both. You need continuous electronic monitoring with an epidural which you can't have in a pool. Is this maybe why the midwives thought you wanted a more 'natural' birth?

You definitely need a debrief.

Most of what you describe is quite 'normal'. (Although it shows how awful our maternity services are that a traumatising birth is seen as. 'Normal').

It doesn't sound like a c section would have been appropriate unless there was something else like fetal distress you've not mentioned.

First births are the hardest. Now you've had a vaginal birth your next one should be much easier.

just reading your post

6 hours is not a long time for labour (1 hour established)

and 7lb 11oz, is not that big, my first was 8lb 4, and we were just fine (no i dont have a baggy fanny thanks! lol) - i had pethedin with him

you midwife should have been encouraging a natural birth as you dont want a c if you dont actually need one

I think (no expert!) that you should try and get some counselling and try not to let it put you off having another DC

Hang on OP. I've just remembered your previous thread. You were panicked before giving birth weren't you? And desperately didn't want a section? You really wanted a natural birth and to avoid pain relief?

I mean this kindly, but is it possible that the pain levels sent you into a meltdown of panic? It happens, and it is nothing to be ashamed of. The mw obviously totally misjudged what you needed in that situation to get a handle back on things. Your description of you yelling that you couldn't do it, that he was too big, that you were screaming sounds very much like a woman who had gone into total emotional collapse rather than a medical problem with the pushing. Just to be clear. I am NOT saying that they should have yelled at you and I am NOT saying that that was your fault. But is it possible that what went wrong was how the mw behaved rather than your treatment per se?

Someone should have listened to you. I'm sorry they didn't and I know how this can leave you feeling.

It may not have made a difference. It probably wouldn't have done but it would have comforted you.

Get angry with them by all means. But go and see your GP. Your wording leads me to believe you are a prime candidate for PND or more likely PTSD.

It sounds like you weren't offered or encouraged things that may have made this easier for you, water, positioning, being listened to, respect, care. That's wrong (although sadly common) and it's totally understandable that it was physically and emotionally traumatic for you.

I'm really sorry this happened to you, it does matter. I know it can be really hard to hear people tell you that at least you and the baby are 'safe' or that it's 'normal'. Your feelings are valid, your birth experience matters regardless of outcome.

You need to make a complain when you feel ready and you also need to debrief the experience with somebody who can help you accept and move on. Hugs

On paper, your labour and delivery were textbook. Many people are saying that and it's right. Labour sounded a normal length, pushing a normal length of time, baby an average size. Physically, you did not need a caesarean.

The fact that you are traumatised is almost unrelated to the birth. You can have a normal, straightforward delivery and debilitating, crippling PTSD and anxiety and you can have a complicated, intervention heavy labour and delivery and feel perfectly comfortable and worry free.

I know from my own experience that the anxiety and ptsd afterwards came from the gap between expectation and reality. Plus, feeling that vulnerable and out of control and people not understanding what I was saying. I know with hindsight that the majority of women say "I can't do this" or "something's wrong" and many even say "I'm dying". It can be a useful way of assessing progress. The I can't do this, I'm going home stage is often a sign that delivery is imminent. But the problem is that when you're the person experiencing the feeling, you get met with soothing "no, come on, everything's fine" type noises and you feel patronised and lost and vulnerable. Trouble is, in most cases the midwife is right! Plus, in my case, something was wrong and I knew it with every fibre of my being. What I needed to hear from them was "we're listening, we will see what's actually happening" instead of a blanket "one more push".

I wanted a home water birth and I started out trying for that. First time round I ended up with a 31 hour labour, 8 hour second stage, 3 attempted ventouses, attempted manual rotation and an emergency caesarean. I had wanted a calm, natural delivery and the reality was crushing. It took a debrief with a brilliant consultant and some counselling for me to see that what happened wasn't in my control. I was fighting against luck and circumstances. The baby was in an unbirthable position. I was never going to have the labour and delivery I planned. But I'd been so set on it, that I hadn't realistically considered the alternatives.

Second time round, on paper it was similarly traumatic in that labour was 38 hours, they couldn't get the baby into a decent position and I had an emergency caesarean again. But I laughed, smiled and enjoyed it. I was in control. I was empowered. That came from the debrief, from understanding what was actually happening to my body, not blindly hoping for some untenable vision of perfection and it was a very healing experience.

I'd fully recommend a debrief and some counselling. Talk about what happened. Talk openly about it on here if you want to. You can be as frank and honest as you like. Many of us have been there. Your feelings are utterly valid. You don't have to justify them. You were traumatised. The good news is, you don't have to carry it with you forever. It can be a slow and difficult process, but you can move on from it. Decent care and support, friends and family and perhaps Mumsnet can help you with that.

Congratulations on the arrival of your baby.

I have been thinking about this thread all day.

When I was in early labour with my first, as I said she was back to back, and I was feeling every contraction in my back, even one of the MWs commented on the strength of the contractions at that early stage. The pain was blinding and I panicked and there was no pain relief, and I did feel patronized, I could tell they wanted to slap me with a wet fish and tell me to get a grip. Maybe if they had known she was back to back they would have been more understanding and given me better pain relief. But I was a first timer and maybe they thought I was just a bit dramatic.

In contrast, with my second, I got to 4 cm dilated with a few niggly cramps, and one MW told me I wasn't in labour if I was still smiling. But I was. It really was fine. Until that damn midwife turned the bloody drip up I was having a wonderful time. The contractions were painful, but I felt in control and calm. Once it all started unravelling I couldn't even breathe properly I was so panicked, but by then they were more concerned about getting baby out than what was going on with me.

I also feel that getting women to write down their birth plans is just setting us up for a fall. I didn't go to classes, maybe it is covered in those, but I feel like it should be made clear that while water births and classical music and minimal pain relief can be a part of some labours, we need to go into labour with no set idea as to how it will go.

Your feelings are valid OP, I hope my previous post didn't make you feel otherwise. But maybe it will help you to know that labour is long and very painful, and that babies are big things coming out of small passages. I know that all sounds very obvious, but it is true. Television does us no favours, one born every minute is edited into an hour, and don't get me started on the inaccuracies in film births. It is impossible to fully prepare someone for the reality of labour.

The midwife could have approached your panic in a different way, but it isn't an exact science and she probably felt that pushing you on was the best way to go. I hope that you are able to process this and move on from it.

I find it so sad to hear people say that this was a normal child birth experience, and I'm not being snide to those posters, but seriously it doesn't have to be like that.

Whether what you experienced has become the norm, doesn't make it ok. And from what you've written OP, you're trying to make sense of what happened. Talk about it as much as you can, I remember going to BF cafés, baby groups & friends who had been through it - it helped so much to keep talking about it, until I'd processed the trauma. Write down what happened and if you feel you were not treated appropriately, write to the hospital/supervisor of midwives... Doesn't have to be a complaint if you don't want to make one. Debrief sounds like a good idea.

Finally and most importantly, have loads of skin to skin with your baby. Birth trauma can have an impact on bonding but lots of skin to skin will help with that.

Btw, I ended up with ventouse delivery for DS1 but was given an epidural at 9cm when I asked for one, so there are no hard and fast rules (i.e. Not being allowed one after transition)

I find it so sad to hear people say that this was a normal child birth experience, and I'm not being snide to those posters, but seriously it doesn't have to be like that.

I am not sure most of us are saying it is normal to feel so upset, or dismissed. What we are saying is that physicality of it sounds pretty normal. I think that, to move on, the OP is going to need to be able to separate the normal (e.g. there is no reason to think that her baby was too big, or that she was left pushing too long, or that she needed a section) from the feelings around the birth, which is where she needs help and where there may or may not be cause for complaint about her treatment.

When I was in early labour with my first, as I said she was back to back, and I was feeling every contraction in my back, even one of the MWs commented on the strength of the contractions at that early stage. The pain was blinding and I panicked and there was no pain relief, and I did feel patronized, I could tell they wanted to slap me with a wet fish and tell me to get a grip. Maybe if they had known she was back to back they would have been more understanding and given me better pain relief. But I was a first timer and maybe they thought I was just a bit dramatic.

This is what happened to me as well, with my first i went into labour around midnight and from the till 8.20 i was sent home 3 times, the first time the MW examined me, i was in agony and telling her so she got annoyed and said go home and take some paracetamol, this is the part no one tells you about. Off i toddled back home in a taxi and OH obviously thought i was soft and going OTT when i was saying how much pain i was on. On last visit the MW had changed shifts, by then i was in absolute blind panic, she examined me and listened to what i was saying, she said your back to back this should have never happened, im sorry and took me down to deliver. I had my daughter at 11am. That night the first MW came at about 1am and sat on my bed in the maternity ward singing my praises saying how well i had done, making a fuss of me. I had no idea what back to back was or if what had happened was normal. Now i know she sat on that bed to stop me complaining about her, i was oung and didn't.

DD2 straightforward normal delivery.

DD3 a very young midwife, i knew i was back to back when the labour started, que being sent home twice even after telling them i was in pain and the baby was back to back. Admitted at around 7pm delivered at midnight but had been in labour since having a show at about 1pm.

Idk if the training is sketch regarding back to back, i have had both and knoc back to back is a hell of a lot more painful and should be managed as such

oops ignore typos hope that makes sense

OP, you haven't returned to thread...I hope you are as well as you can be and just busy with your little one. PM me if you want to/need to. Any time am nocturnal
Take care xx