Why is C/Section such a 'dirty word'?

[Shoeshopper]

Hi ... why is it so hard to get a C Section ... I asked at the hospital yesterday and you'd think I asked them for an abortion or something worse.
Is there anywhere one can go to have the choice?
I do realise this is fairly contriversial .. but shouldn't we be able to have a choice?
Also - as a preg Woman, are you allowed to choose the hospital you give birth at?

In thoery you can choose which hospital but in practice here in Croydon you have to go to Mayday.

Well, c-section is major abdominal surgery so I guess they maybe don't want to do it on the NHS unless there is a medical reason (and this should include maternal distress/fear of labour IMO). Why do you want one in particular? Not that you have go answer, I'm just nosey

My personal opinion is that "too posh to push" elective c-sections shouldn't be allowed on the NHS. Mainly due to my perceived idea of the cost to the NHS for unnecessary surgery.

I have the most terrible phobia about natural birth... I'm only 16 weeks and I see a watermelon in the shops and start to panic about giving birth ... I've just always wanted the alternative.
I agree that the NHS shouldn't necessarily give it due to cost, but surely there should be an option where one can pay? I'm jus SO scared.

Agree with SD - the cost is clearly much higher than natural delivery. Also, if you can give birth naturally you are more likely to recover quicker/not need as much aftercare etc. CS are major abdominal surgery as SD says.

I know (and appreciate) what you are saying about the 'choice'. But I think the NHS tries hard not to spend money where it doesn't need to be spent IYSWIM.

Incidentally, I was offered a planned section (vague medical reasons) and I turned it down. I was keen to be up and about after the birth and thought a CS would hinder this. I gave birth naturally (although was induced) but wanted to steer clear of a CS where possible (not being precious about it btw). Everyone is different I guess...?

There is an option where you can pay - go private

shoeshopper, at 16 weeks you still have plenty of time to allay your fears about a vaginal birth. Talk it through with your midwife, I'm sure you're not the first pregnant woman she has worked with that feels terrified at the thought of natural birth.

Maybe something like CBT or hypnotherapy would help you understand and control your fears a little better ?

A baby's head isn't as large as a watermelon Can you isolate just what it is that you fear most?

You could give alternative things like hypnotherapy or other relaxation stuff a go - as you say, you're only 16 weeks so there's plenty of time. As I said, IMO,severe maternal distress/fear should count as a valid reason if it can not be overcome. It's always worth trying to overcome it though as the recovery from a c-section can be longer than a "natural" delivery.

FWIW, I was scared everytime but I went on to have 3 including a home waterbirth.

SS - it's natural to be scared of labour - it's the unknown. Hopefully as your pregnancy progresses you'll start to feel more confident about it.

DH and I attended the local NCT antenatal classes (was about £80 for 10 evening classes) and they were invaluable for us as first time parents. I'd highly recommend them if you are scared - knowing what is going to happen to you in more detail than you get at the NHS classes may help?

If this is an option for you (re cost). You could find out about classes in your area on the NCT website.

Well there is nothing stopping you arranging to have a private C/S, though you may need to consider when you want to arrange this, as IME once you arrnage for a private birth you don't always get the full NHS antenatal care. But it is expensive - I haven't looked at prices recenlty but don't expect much change out of £6k (though I'm in London.)

I would talk to your midwife and your GP and see what they say - you may be able to get referred to a different consultant, but as Soupy says there isn't always as much choice as you would think.

I agree with soupy, elective c-sections are not handed out willy-nilly because of the huge cost implications. It's not about punishing women who want a section

Shoeshopper. I agree that you should have a choice, and you clearly do have a very real 'issue' with childbirth which you need to talk to someone about. Do you think that the person you spoke to at the hospital realised how strongly you felt about it, or did they think that it was just understandable nervousness that would go away in time?

However, I would also say that a c-section IS a major operation, whereas many (not all, obviously) women give birth naturally without serious problems. Whoever said that giving birth was like trying to pass a watermelon has a lot to answer for. I know I'm stating the bleedin' obvious, but a baby is not actually the same shape as a watermelon, and your body is designed to allow a baby out (iykwim). All the hormones and things of labour also help to make the task feel more do-able. I wonder if some sort of counselling would help you with your phobia? (I have various phobias - though not about childbirth - and have found counselling has helped a bit; CBT is meant to be very very effective but other people know more about that than I do...)

However, I am not saying that you shouldn't be allowed a c-section if that is what's right for you. I think that you should explore the various options with someone who is really sympathetic to and understanding of your needs.

(I have had an elective section and a natural birth, btw. They were both fantastic experiences. I'd go for the natural birth again if there were no medical reasons to prevent it. But I know many others in my position who'd opt for the section. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' answer, imo.)

Good luck.

Shoeshopper i was the opposite to you at a point when i was so scared in my second pregnancy of having an elective c/s as i had an emergency c/s after having my first baby and i knew the pain and recovery of a c/s, however as my body had laboured the first time before the actual c/s i begged the doctors not to give me an elective c/s second time round and be allowed to labour again even if it ended in a c/s again, but i had a full 16hr labour and gave birth with no problems! Just thought i would let you see it the other way round, as i was in hosp for 7days with c/s and had 6weeks recovery time, and with labouring and giving birth i was in 2 days and i took about 2 weeks to recover. Which would you prefer?

Have you heard a lot of horror stories? I could tell you about my lovely birth experience, if you like. Why not start a thread asking for positive experiences? I bet you'd get a lot on here - all different, but all positive.

all mums to be are scared of childbirth. I remember i had just started maternity leave and watched a birthing programme on tv,then phoned my dh in floods of tears telling him that i couldn't do that his reply was I THINK THAT YOUR A WEE BIT TO LATE TO THINK OF THAT!!!LOL

Nearly had to have c/s which filled me with more dread than a natural delivery and knew it would take longer to recover.

Since went on to have a second. loads of woman have 2,3,4 or more babies so it cant be that bad.

Try not to think of it and enjoy your pregnancy.

WOW, thanks for your opinions and advise.
Yes, I think it may be a plan to look at councelling/midwife/hypnotherapy... I get so freaked just thinking about it.
Yes, I've heard so many scary stories... many of my friends have had to push for the likes of 3 days before having an emergency c/s and the distress has been awful.
Like the idea of hearing positive stories Ellbell - perhaps a thread I should begin.

Shoeshopper

My first birth (NHS) -

Full term
3 hours from start to finish
No pain relief (although it was offered, I declined)
Lights dimmed
Just DH and I for much of it (mw popped in every 15 mins or so and there was immediate assistance if we wanted/needed it)
Healthy, beautiful baby girl delivered onto my chest at 2.31am
After initial tests (the immediate ones they do after birth that score colour etc) the midwife left DH and I with DD
We were allowed to leave later that day as both DD and I were in perfect health.

Not all first / vaginal / NHS births are terrifying horror stories x

DD1 was an elective section for medical reasons, so DD2 was my first labour.

Waters broke (gradual trickle, not full Niagara Falls jobbie) just after midnight. Slight pains started straight away (like period pains, getting slightly worse over the next few hours). Had a long bath and read my book in the bath till about 2.30 a.m. when I woke dh and put TENS machine on. Phoned hospital at about 3.30 when I started to suspect this was 'it'. They said to come in straight away (because of previous section) so I phoned the friend who was coming to look after dd1, finished packing (...was very disorganised - I was 37 weeks + 5 so not really ready to give birth yet!) and got to the hospital at about 5.30-6.00. I was examined and hooked up to a monitor for about 15 mins. I think I was about 3 cm dilated at that point. Asked to use birth pool but someone was already using it, so I used the (lovely, very deep) bath instead. Just me and dh with midwife popping in every 15 mins to monitor baby's heartbeat. I didn't feel I needed any more pain relief than just being in the water for most of that time. Asked for gas and air towards the end (was in the bath for 2 hours) when I was obviously approaching transition. Briefly felt sick during transition and stopped the gas and air. Started to feel baby pushing down (vaguely like needing a poo, but different - sorry, hard to explain) and they got me out of the bath and transferred me to a birthing room. They confirmed I was full dilated (this was about 8.00-8.30 a.m.) and I started to push. This stage did go on a bit (nearly 2 hours) but no-one was worried as it was clear I was making progress (they could see baby's head crowning). I had two midwives with me the whole time because of my history (previous section) and they were brilliant and so encouraging (I did briefly say 'I can't do this', but they really held my hand and got me through it and it soon passed). I gave birth to my dd kneeling up on the bed. I needed a few stitches, but was able to hold her and put her to the breast straight away. I had a shower and was moved onto a post-natal ward to rest (and EAT - I was starving!) but went home later the same day. I always felt that all the people around me were confident in my ability to cope, and that sort of became a self-fulfilling prophecy... they believed I could cope, so I did cope!

Good luck.

shoestopper, I have done both labour and a CS (with one baby, how clever am I?)

I think the most constructive, helpful thing I can say is that you still have plenty of time to get yourself all the help there is to CONSIDER facing labour. I am not saying you should - that's totally up to you and I am not going to judge. But I do think you could use the long months of pregnancy to do loads of research into ways of helping your labour be the best it could be.

As someone who had a traumatic labour, my major piece of advice would be to tell you what I would do next time (if there were to be one!) and that is: HIRE A DOULA.

Having someone who will be with you throughout labour and not leave you on your own, but will help you with your confidence and with helping you find ways to cope, would have been invaluable for me and I feel my long labour could have been so very very different with this sort of input.

I found relying on an ever changing midwifery 'team' did absolutely nothing to help me.

I really wish you the best of luck x

ooh and just realised my halloween name change might sound like a comment on the whole labour thing - I'm usually sunnysideup! Not meant to be anything other than a halloween handle

My "worst" birth was DS1 which from first little twinges to his birth was 23 hours. I would stress that the vast majority of this was fine with no pain relief. He was also my biggest baby and the only one who was spine-to-spin.

DS2, another hospital birth, 18 hours from first twinge to birth and 18 minutes pushingso nowhere near 3 days .

DD, a home waterbirth, 9.5 hours from first twinge to birth. About 7 minutes pushing, if that. Perfect.

Of course, all three hurt like nothing on earth. But the pain finished immediately the baby was born - it truly was a miracle.

You have plenty of time to decide and to try to conquer any fear you have. If that's what you want to do. Yes, labour is bloody painful and no one will deny that but as I said, the way the pain finishes immediately the baby is born is nothing short of miraculous.

FWIW, I skim over the "how the baby gets out" bit in my mind. I know it has to be done and I know how it happens but I really don't need to think about it. I find that helped a lot - I'm not a "need to know every gory detail" kind of person.

Here's a recent thread about positive birth stories.

Shoeshopper, my birth was longish but certainly not traumatic - if someone tells you they had a 24 hour labour they don't necessarily mean 24 hours of screaming agony, as for much of the time they will either be between contractions or having not so bad ones, or high on some very effective form of pain relief! There are some great drugs out there
Once I felt I couldn't cope any more I had an epidural and from then on couldn't feel a thing. Remember you have that option - epidurals really do block out everything.

FWIW I think it is worth trying out things that will make you feel better about a natural birth, as I was back to normal in a very few days and I don't think it's usually so easy after a C section.

thread for reassurance about childbirth

Hi Shoeshopper- sorry you are feeling scared! it's perfectly normal!

the NICE guidelines do clearly state that maternal request is not an indication for a c-section....ie just because you want one..you don't just get one! a c-section costs the NHS about 4 times as much as a natural birth . And it is major surgery which can have long lasting implications and all the attendant risks.

If you really want one.there are private hospitals down south..

The Portland
St John & elizabeths

HOWEVER - I think it might be worth looking at your fear and working through that....i had an emergency c.s first and a vaginal delivery second time...and i know which i would do again! fear of birth is something many women feel, to a greater or lesser degree..

but if you are 16 weeks and already feeling like this, i'd give some thought to getting past that fear...a c-section is not an easy way out (not that i am saying you want an easy way out!)..there is still pain and risks and a longer recovery time than a natural birth. It could also affect your chances of giving birth vaginally in the future if you felt you wanted to..

women's bodies were made to give birth....and IMO , its worth giving it a go....if i could relive one day of my life again, it would be giving birth to my DD, pushing her out into the world....marvelous!

Hope that helps....and i hope you get a really positive birth experience, however baby arrives!

Shoeshoppers. I've had sections and normal births and in my experience normal births are a million times better. I think you should see someone about the fears you have. Come to believe that natural births are wonderful things and far less painful than having a section (afterwards).