Upsetting hospital visit at 38 weeks

[MintyChops]

Just back from the hospital and am feeling very upset. Basically, this is my third child and my previous history is; DS1 is was induced at 41+5, was completely fine, had my waters broken (not pleasant but ok), onto oxytocin, 8 hours later a 40 min pushing stage and he was out. DS2 I developed high BP and they recommended induction at 39+6. I had 2 intensely painful gel things and this time when they broke my waters it was agony. Proper agony. My husband practically had to hold me down for them to do it. Then oxytocin and trapped in the bed. It all took 36 horrible hours.

I have always regretted agreeing to it with DS2. I feel he wasn't ready, I wasn't ready and wish I had waited longer. I have been determined from the beginning thatI do not want to be induced this time. They seemed amenable to that until this morning when I started having pressure from the midwife to get a sweep next week and then the doctor told me he would induce me on my due date (02/10) due to my age (41). I immediately said I don't want that and became upset, it's the last thing I want after that awful last time. He then started going on about dangers of still births, placental deterioration, etc., putting the frightened on me.

He told me to start the ball bouncing, more walking and have sex (yes, really feel like THAT!) but I am worried that they are going to keep insisting even though there is no indication of any problems or other reason he could give me apart from my age. I don't want to be railroaded and I am dreading going back next week and am really upset about it. Any older mums gone through/ going through the same thing?

Right. Maybe I'll change my mind next week and just say I don't want the exam and postpone it all until the following week, giving my knackered old 41 year old body a chance to do its own thing. Sigh. Honestly now PicandMinx, why are they so obsessed with inductions?

They are risk adverse. The best way to manage the risk is to control when women give birth. I'm sorry you are not being treated with respect. Your doctor tried to trick you again today by offering a vaginal exam. You couldn't benefit from this exam. In the same way an internal exam during labour has no benefit for the labouring woman. I suspect he would "find" a reason to admit you and force your hand into accepting an induction. This happened to me during my first pregnancy.

Good luck for next week Minty, I hope you get the birth you want.

Thanks PicandMix. Arrogant lying bastard will have to find someone else to trick next week.

It's your body and your baby. Only you can decide what's best for you. I believe that doctors and MWs should discuss everything and work in partnership with women to get the best outcome for everyone concerned.

Go Mintychops. It sounds like you're in a good place mentally. It's your body and baby and you decide. So glad I stuck to my guns xxx

Hi minty glad you are feeling good about things! I do agree the exam and score is to see if you would be a good candidate for induction. Do you want to avoid induction completely? If so just refuse the exam and perhaps be open to increased monitoring. If you might go for an induction if your body is ready, then it probably would help to know your bishop's score. I certainly believe waters can be broken by accident during an exam or maybe on purpose (hard to prove either way), but you could always put a shot across the bows beforehand along the lines of 'ok we'll do the exam... I dont want it to break my waters by accident, so go easy'. My sister (who had hers last night) was 3cm up till yesterday, midwife did an exam but wouldnt do a sweep in case it broke her waters. Imho thats the right attitude: lets know where we stand, but carefully and respectfully. If you can get that fine line, its a win win for you.

The Rotunda should be better. And at semi private, you are paying money for their care! It should be better. Although the healthcare system is up the left in the 26 counties... a whole other topic!!!

Good luck, heres hoping labour starts itself before next week!

I would say may be good idea to wait until 41 weeks. Maybe you'll have a similar experience to your first child? I was induced with DS1 - waters broken and then drip due to placenta abruption at 33+5 weeks and with DS2 on due date due to DS1, just need to have waters broken. Can't say having waters broken was sore at all, even with premmie DS1, just uncomfortable... Do you know why it could have been so painful for you that time round? Personally I didn't want to risk the possibility of placental deterioration after what happened with first son.

Ideally I don't want an induction at all but I am prepared to accept it if, say, I was 42 weeks and needed to get going. I am not prepared to have them do it early, which is what they suggested last week and definitely not having a "stealth induction"! Think I will postpone anything beyond a quick scan to check all is well and consider the VE at 41 weeks. That seems fair enough.

capecath I have no idea why it was so painful. I had been in for 24 hours by then, had 2 gels and been up all night walking and trying not to kill the snoring woman beside me. They told me it was either break the waters of I would have to have a c-section. I was only 1 cm after all that and I just know my body wasn't ready. It was excruciating, honestly worse than contractions.

Goodmum, congratulations! How are you feeling?

I think I'm building up to a similar argument type situation.

The obstetrician at my appointment on Tuesday said 'we'll do a sweep now if you like' (I was 39+2, even though they had written down 38+5 for some reason on my notes). I said no thank you. Then she said, 'ok let's get a date for induction booked in' - this was directly after I'd asked her to write in my notes 'would like to wait for spontaneous labour' (which she did). She then said 'don't wait until 42 weeks at your age' when she could see that I was going with 'no thanks to that too'. Then she booked an appointment for 2 weeks time, at which point she thinks I'll be 40+2 to 'do a sweep and book an induction date for later in the week'. In the end I just smiled and nodded.

My doula has told me to book the appointment if they are being arses about it - there is nothing they can do if I just don't turn up to the appointment.

At the same appointment the obs went through my birth plan with me and crossed things off saying 'Don't say that, sometimes Keilland forceps are the right instrument for the job'. Erm no, the only thing I've written about consent is for Keilland forceps.. she ended up writing next to it 'have discussed, is happy if indicated' I told her I wasn't happy if indicated, and said I'd just print out a new version without her scribbles on it.

FFS, it's like we're children. I'm a 40 year old woman who is capable of understanding risk and making her own decisions based on those risks.

That makes sense minty, inductions work best when overdue usually, and refusing interventions is your absolute right. I'd be the same, I asked for extra time with one of my pregnancies and went 4 days over. Went ahead with induction at that point, and it was a breeze. But dont feel you need to take it early on 'age' grounds!!

ohthegoats it's so bloody patronising isn't it? Like we can't read what they are writing and spot that it's the opposite of what we just said?

Thanks pinkteapots, I know what you mean, my first induction was fine; overdue and a totally different story to number 2.

Mintychops- I'm great thanks and happy with the decision I made. No intervention at all. But then a c section was what worked best for me after my last csection birth four years ago for preeclpsia. Keep strong and do only what you want. Consultants tend to think dumb women! Well no stand up to them, they'll back down, good luck, keep us informed. Ps I'm nearly 38, classed by consultants an 'older' mum!!! ??xxx

Why does it have to be like this? After all this stress and fighting with them, you still have to go and give bloody birth.

At my 16 week appointment, my MW is already starting with "your placenta will stop working at 38 weeks". IT'S NOT EVEN TRUE!

I really struggle with challenging HCPs but this thread is invaluable. As picandmix put so well, last time they found a reason to get me to agree - under complete duress - to an induction. No doubt I will be posting in 20 weeks time, asking for the same advice.

zebra

"At my 16 week appointment, my MW is already starting with "your placenta will stop working at 38 weeks". IT'S NOT EVEN TRUE!"

WTF?! Thats such BS. Total bullying. Its like we're all dumb and cant make decisions. Really there is a sort of status arrogance about it all - 'i'm a consultant, you're just another pregnant lady. Do what you're told'. There are brilliant consultants its true, and some leave something to be desired...

pinkteapots I know, and you'd think I would know better, after being bullied into an induction the first time. "Your waters have gone, no second opinions, I'm never wrong, your baby will die if you don't agree..."

But I just find it so hard to challenge them :(

zebra it IS hard to challenge them! You arent alone in that at all. Its just awful how things are sometimes managed, like women are stats. Ive fantastic midwives and have had great care, but should I be faced with a consultant telling me I should do 'x' if I didnt want to, I would struggle for sure. Wish I had more grit :-) Its easy to offer ballsy advice, harder to actually be ballsy!

It's being threatened with causing the possible death if your baby that's so awful and surely unethical. zebra, your MW is really wrong to tell you that. I just can't believe how many of us are being bullied, emotionally blackmailed and generally lied to at a time when we should be supported, informed and looked after.

Who is giving birth? You need to keep that in your mind.

Ultimately it is you who are in control. You can request their assistance, ask for their advice, but ultimately it is your choice whether you take it or indeed whether you even attend appointments at all. They are not compulsory.

Of course, a mother seeking the best outcome for their child will avail themselves of the expertise on offer in order to guide her. Sometimes she may have to compromise in order to access certain services (I.e you won't be getting an epidural at home however much you have researched and accepted the risks). However the more women that act confidently with regards to their body autonomy, the better services will get.

Pregnant women are not helpless victims of a system, that are a part of it. Without them there would BE no system.

Ok so I was back in today and decided to allow a VE but only after saying that was ALL I was prepared to allow, no sweep, be careful not to "accidentally" break waters. He worked out my bishop's score which is 3. Pah! 3! So much for all his let's induce you early, unless I've got it totally wrong a score of 3 would make me not at all ready for an induction and a lot more likely to end up with a c-section. Is that right?

He tried to get me to book in for an induction early next week but when I asked what general hospital policy is he had to admit to 40+10 so I have agreed to that and am going to bounce the bejaysus out of myself on the ball to try to avoid. Even with that when he called across to whoever is in charge of this step there was much tutting and "yes I know but she is quite determined", "no all my other ladies are more open to it " etc. It's all so patronising.

On a side note, my "D"H, despite listening to me go on and on about how I don't want an induction etc and having witnessed the hideousness of induction number 2 said "Actually, it would suit me better if you had it this weekend as ColleagueX is away on hols in 2 weeks' time so won't be able to cover my paternity leave if you go late". He's lucky I didn't kill him. I did call him some choice names and told him not to come with me this morning after all because I don't need someone else there who's not on my side. Am feeling quite on my own in this now.

Is there not the option of daily monitoring over the 40+10?

I'm watching your story with interest... my 'arguing against induction' appointment is 5 days away, and my bump/feelings about labour being imminent haven't changed since my last appointment. My original due date was 4th October, so I still don't think I'm at 40 weeks yet. I want to be able to go 10 - 14 days over THAT ideally. I'm going to get guilted, I can feel it coming on.

Why are you arguing? There's no argument. No one controls you.

The more you 'discuss' the more you'll get responses. If you wanted to refuse early induction because your post-birth hairdresser is on holiday then that is your business.

Are you undecided?

For me, either the baby was in danger, therefore remove instantly with a knife, or baby wasn't in which case leave me in peace.

minty your consultant is a patronising bollix! Even basic manners would stop a hcp commenting negatively about a patient within earshot! I'm trully flabbergasted, suppose I shouldnt be..

Bishops score of 3 is pretty unready for induction, stick to your +10. God I feel like drivin down there and coming in with you like a prickly porcupine next time!!! lol

Sorry bout DHs insensitivity.. hope he realised once he'd said it aloud!

It's hard Starlight, this guy was reading out what he was writing on my notes....."so, I have explained the increased risk of stillbirth, foetal distress, meconium....". Lots of emotive words designed to make you feel like you are wilfully risking your baby's life. I want someone who knows what they're talking about to be on my side and in real life I don't have that, just the doctors predicting death and doom.

Are you in Ireland too ohthegoats?

I was induced at 33+ weeks with dd3 with a completely unfavourable cervix, all it took was a half dose of the gel. It was a strange one for me as it didn't work within the 24 hours and then the nicu filled up so they stopped everything. I decided to go home and come back the next day to start again but overnight (after consultant agreed that nothing would happen now and that it was ok to go home) it all kicked off. I got back to hospital the next day at 7cms and she was born 45 mins later back to back and weighing 6lbs at 34 weeks. I had gestational diabetes though.

Not all inducements are bad when early. I was also induced with dd2 but this was breech at 37 weeks and we already knew she had died. She was stillborn , they think now due to undiagnosed GD. Nothing to do with post term.

I had no tears or forceps etc used at all. Then I had dd4 who was born at 37+ weeks via a c section as she needed to come out for GD again but I couldn't face being induced, mentally. It was all too much for me. Oddly, she's my only baby that required forceps and during the section as she was facing my hip and quite stuck.

Hope all goes well for you, just remember what's right for you and baby and take everything into account.

Thanks pinkteapots, I wish you would come down and tell the consultant what a twat he is!! The whole phone call to the other person was designed as a "look how unreasonable and reckless you are" thing. As for DH, I think he realised immediately but couldn't unsay it.