Caesarians are bad - Michel Odent now

[Welshmum]

He's about to do an interview on BBC radio 5Live (11am Tuesday) about elective c-sections inflicting babies with 'an impaired capacity for happiness'. Should be interesting....

Well, my two are happy! And a heck of a lot happier than being dead, which was the option.

hear hear hmb!! my sentiments exactly

complex cocktail of love hormones... Oxytocin underload...
I think he is more focussed on the elective option perhaps???, I mean if a babys health is at risk fromm a vaginal birth then absolutely a c section is the best option, I am still confounded by women who choose a c section for non essential reasons, some with first babies...
I had 2 "easy" natural births and would be scared of a c section for any reason, but childbirth is about choice, you weigh up pros and cons and makes your choices.... You cannot turn it into a right and wrong...
Also surely oxytocin isn't always released in vaginal deliveries ? Do these babies suffer from this alleged happiness deprivation?

"best experience of birth: when it's quiet, no one else around" - and quite often dead, in the past, I assume M.Odent.
this man shouldn't be allowed on unchallenged.

ffs, only women who are mothers should be midwives - would people only want to be operated on by heart surgeons who'd had a heart attack???

Kiwisbird, elective doesn't mean you've chosen to have a section, it merely means it is planned rather than an emergency done in labour.
Oxytocin is always released in labour as I understand it - it is part of the chain of hormones that start the labour process.
Odent actually says that c-sections are at least as safe as vaginal deliveries in terms of survival etc but he has this theory about hormones which I am very doubtful about. But then I'm not in the least confounded by people who choose sections - one of my closest friends did so (two very happy children) and I would definitely choose one if I had another child. I am secretly a bit baffled by anyone NOT choosing one - each to their own, eh?

All I can remember between the delivery and the placenta is cuddling dd (who now has severe SN)and a bucket being placed below my rear end as a registrar wasn't available for the next half hour. He had been in when we were in difficulty to set up forceps but she popped out just as the stirrups were being put in place.

I demanded c-section with ds - I didn't want to be put in a position where I'd panic if things weren't going right again.

There is no different between the gorgeous and unconditional love my children give me and in return, I adore them.

During the interview I did wonder what planet he was on!!!

Oh and on a personal note, there's been no problem with the c-section scar at all. But the episiotomy still gives me jip during sex sometimes!

Mind you, if I did have a vaginal birth, I'd prefer a quiet space with as few people around as poss and I would prefer to have someone helping me through it who knew what it felt like, rather than arc lights and a room full of people watching me puff and pant. I do actually agree with him on that point. And he has been hugely influential in giving women the right to choose how they give birth instead of being strapped, lying down on a bed etc.

Bundle, surely then by his own admission (although I didn't listen to the interview) he should shut the F* up and find another job.

Is this the nutcase who says only women should be allowed in the delivery room and, furthermore, only women who have (a) given birth vaginally and (b) were born vaginally themselves? Otherwise it is like having a "predator" in the room?

Mmmmmm.

Mind you, if I did have a vaginal birth, I'd prefer a quiet space with as few people around as poss and I would prefer to have someone helping me through it who knew what it felt like, rather than arc lights and a room full of people watching me puff and pant. I do actually agree with him on that point. And he has been hugely influential in giving women the right to choose how they give birth instead of being strapped, lying down on a bed etc.

eggg-sactlly crunchie

btw, I'm not against quiet rooms/natural birth per se, just sick of dogmatic approaches of odent et al.

This man should sod off.

I know that I'm biased but what a funny man.
Find it particularly amusing that if anyone suggests an anecdote then: "one cannot generalise blah blah, one must look at whole societies blah blah...." (please add own accent) but, when arguing his own point, anecdotes from his own experience are held up as universal truths eg. apparently only women who give birth vaginally, no pain relief, in privacy etc. report joyful experiences because they're the only ones to phone him and tell him so. Well I had a lovely non labour c section and have told lots of people (usually stopped when they started to drop off) about how wonderful ds's birth was but didn't actually feel the need to ring Michel Odent to tell him that. Apparently he does have books and books of evidence but did not really tell us about it in any detail whatsoever. Preferred just to go on and on about how we are mammals, which I don't think anyone was disputing.
For me though 2 moments were pmsl funny:

1. A woman in her 50s who had actually had 2 vagianl births emailed to say "oh joy, yet another thing for women to feel guilty about" to which Michel replied "yes, see, if you listen to women who have vaginal birhts they will tell you what a joyful experience it is"
2. Michel tells presenter that he is probably "only subtly damaged" as a result of his caesarian birth - splutter! Thought he took Odent's kind words very well really - think I would have decked him but as an induced, forceps delivery under epidural heaven knows whats happened to my capacity to love

Did anyone else hear it. What did you think? I'm sure I'm only saying all this as a result of underlying feelings of inadequacy, failed womanhood, trauma at being a sad victim of the patriarchal medical establishment etc. etc.

Whoops, spent a bit too long composing that diatribe. What I actually meant to say was that I agree with the rest of you Especially CD.

My sister is desperately looking for a handbag which she cannot find in the shops. She is also searching the internet for the bag. Will she be any more pissed off if the bag arrives by Parcel Force instead of trawling round the shops?

Basically, I think the joy of having a child (however) cannot be measured on how it arrives!

Would he like to come round and see my two chortling and guffawing and high on the joys of life and
a) tell me how they could be happier
b) put himself in my place during my two labours without the emergency c sections and live to tell the tale.

Sometimes I wonder if this man has nothing better to do. He has done a lot for the right of women to choose their labour conditions and support, but isn't it time he BOGGED OFF and stopped stirring?
I've actually paid money to hear Janet Balaskas tell me how M. Odent was the midwife when she popped out her 4th, an 11ber. Well good for you guys but these birth professionals are more competetive and illusionist than the advertising teams for luxury cars.

message withdrawn

Oh what a complete load of crap.
I've had 3 sections and my kids are all perfectly happy and healthy.
Most people would love to have the perfect 'normal' birth, but if there is no alternative what does he expect them to do, leave them in there ???

Oh FFS! Good job I didn't listen to this. What a prize ass!

As that woman said one more sodding thing to feel guilty about.

I'd show him what it feels like to have a bloody preditor in the room. Oh, sorry, I forgot, I'm OK because I was a normal delivery. Hullo clouds, hullo f-ing sky.

And with the Amsterdam/San Paulo thing, does having a natural birth make it more likley that you will work as a prostitute/smoke dope then/have a sudden urge to grop tulips???

Fnar - I was a section baby - I'm not a miserable sod - I'm the happiest person I know!?!?

One very happy c-section baby here too. Sounds like this man could find better things to research if you ask me......I won't waste my time on him...

Excuse my ignorance but what the hell are the differences between a c section or vaginal birth. How the hell can one or the other affect the baby? It's not like it's going to remember and if it does I know which I'd rather my entrance be!!
As for no paim relief - i would not have had another child if epidurals didnt exist.

I love your first post on this thread, hmb

From my n=2 perspective I have a ds (vaginal) who was very unhappy for his first few years, almost certainly because of the damage caused to his head druign delivery and a dd (caesarian) who was the most contented happy child you could wish to meet. It's evened up now pretty much, but basically I would agree the man's talking b**locks.