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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

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Original poster

Caesarians are bad - Michel Odent now

111 replies

Welshmum · 23/03/2004 10:47

He's about to do an interview on BBC radio 5Live (11am Tuesday) about elective c-sections inflicting babies with 'an impaired capacity for happiness'. Should be interesting....

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katzguk · 24/03/2004 12:00

can i add my two penneth's worth. I didn't hear the show but would like to add that not all woment produce oxytocin during labour i didn't. My waters broke but i didin't contract so had to be given a synthetic form of oxytocin - syntocin.

pupuce · 24/03/2004 12:04

Katzguk... you are correct but you didn't have a natural labour. How long was it between the waters leaking to the drip?
In a natrural labour (i.e. not induced) you always produce oxyticyn as it is what makes you contract.

I think it's 98% of women will contract when their waters go if you give them the time.... and unfortuantely nowadays ... you're given 24 hours or a bit more UNLESS you ask to be left alone for 72 hours... which you are entitled to do. Most women will go in spontaneous labour within 72 hours.

katzguk · 24/03/2004 12:07

plus if this bloke has published loads on this topic then i can't find them, he has a couple papers on preterm labour and seafood and one on position and a couple of antenatal care. Nowt on C-sections..that i could find i must add

fio2 · 24/03/2004 12:07

I am just fed up by the media trying to make me feel guilty for having a life saving procedure to deliver my child and save my life. My daughter was born damaged and it looks likely now her problems were caused by the birth. I was not going to have a normal birth with my 2nd child because I did not want the same thing happening again. I chose an elective section and my consultant supported me. I dont really care that he didnt get a dose of oxytocin tbh.

katzguk · 24/03/2004 12:09

hi i was left for just over 2 days, waters broke 2am on tues mornng drip inserted at 11.30 thrusday morning beautiful girl born 4.30pm thursday, i think it was baout 60hrs. Could have argued for longer but got to the point of whats the point!!! plus was fed up of leaking everywhere

pupuce · 24/03/2004 12:09

look here

hmb · 24/03/2004 12:09

Fair enough

However, I'll eat this keyboard if he can back up his statements on the San Paulo thing with rational scientific evidence. You might just as well postulate that having a natural childbirth predisposes you to want to work in tulip growing industry.

And I do think that he is giving woment yet one more thing to feel guilty and worried about. Especialy those woment who truly do not have a chioce over the way in whice they give birth. And IIFC I prefacec that posting bay saying how much he had done to further women's choices in delivery. Now he seems to be doing the opposite.

pupuce · 24/03/2004 12:11

I am sorry but I don't think anyone is or SHOULD BE making people feel guilty for having a section (elective or not) for medical reason (that includes trauma from last birth).

katzguk · 24/03/2004 12:13

yeah! he's written a book on the subject but as a scientist i have to argue, books generally aren't peer reviewed, if i had enough money i could write a book tomorrow saying that tap water was pink and we should all stop drinking it!!! i far as i'm concerned until he manages to publish a journal article in a well respected journal on the topic then i won't believe a word of it!

pupuce · 24/03/2004 12:14

He has written over 50 medical articles and 10 books.

katzguk · 24/03/2004 12:16

yep but most of them are on other topics.. he may be a great scientist but not necessarily on this topic

dinosaur · 24/03/2004 12:17

I thought this was interesting. It's a very detailed look at the risks of Caesarean sections. This is all on my mind at the moment as my scan on Friday showed that the placenta was low (although obviously as I am only 21 weeks it may move up).

highlander · 24/03/2004 12:18

Pupuce,
the post-delivery hamorrhage stats are the same if you have a section or vag delivery.

Both birth options have their advantages and disadvantages - section is MY choice and it's best for me. Vag delivery is a choice that other women make 'cos it's best for them. I would NEVER criticise another women for her choice so why am I getting the impression that you're shouting down my choice? No you're not scaring me, you're just adopting that patronising, 'vag is best' tone, without listening to what I want.

And I though that listening, supporting etc were what this site was all about.......

katzguk · 24/03/2004 12:19

have to hold my hands up and apoligise have now found one article from him an birth physiology, have to conceed it is well written, but one paper doesn't make it gospel truth, a bit like the one paper written by Wakefield on MMR, look what caos that caused

hmb · 24/03/2004 12:19

Katzguts, it is only pink if you haven't had enough oxytocin during delivery

Postulating half baked thoeries that not having gone into labour will lead to your child being violent, and that isn't supposed to make women feel guilty??

And I think that his points extending animal delivery techniques to humans leaves a lot to be desired. Rats may give birth alone, but often eat their young if disturbed. This seldom, if ever, happens in humans.

The ways in which humans bond with their offspring are so much more compex than seen in animals. We have compex lingustic programming, areas of our brains are devoted only to the recognition of faces. This is a coplex, multi factoral issuue and he seems to be a one trick pony.

katzguk · 24/03/2004 12:23

that will be why then i had no natural oxycotin during labour

katzguk · 24/03/2004 12:25

if anyone would like a copy of that paper then email me and i can send it to you, can't give you link cause you need to be from a uni to get them.

Can i just add an additional note, the paper was oublish 3 years ago and has never been cited but anyone else...so thats says a lot about what the science community make of it

hmb · 24/03/2004 12:26

My understanding was that Odent is a respected OB/GYN, and not a sociologist. I was a good neurohistologist, but I wouldn't expect people to take me seriously in the field of Geology, if I poetulated that volanos were caused by by a depletion in glial cells in the lateral hypothalamus.

katzguk · 24/03/2004 12:30

i'm not saying that he isn't a fanstatic OB/GYN but that still doesn't make him the world'sleadin authority on c-sections, if he had more data worth publishing then i'd have thought he'd have published it!!!

hmb · 24/03/2004 12:32

It's a publish or die world out there, so you would think so , wouldn't you?

katzguk · 24/03/2004 12:37

too true, if i want to get on in science then i have to publish, basically you are only as good as your last paper

hmb · 24/03/2004 12:41

Could well be why I left

katzguk · 24/03/2004 12:43

i've only just started first job after finishing my PhD..enjoying it at the moment

bloss · 24/03/2004 13:01

Message withdrawn

jasper · 24/03/2004 22:12

You're not alone Pupuce.
I have read quite a bit of his stuff - very impressive and convincing.

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