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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Am I being unreasonable? Dad to be...please help

999 replies

simba86 · 11/03/2014 20:25

My wife and I, married for 3 years, together for 10, in our late 20s are expecting our first child at the end of May.

My wife has never really got on with my parents, particularly my mum, and whilst they live 2 hours away we see them ever couple of months.

I am obviously very excited about becoming a dad. I love my wife more than anyone in the world and so much looking forward to having our own family. I am also looking forward to being a proud dad and introducing our baby to my parents shortly after the birth, when everything has calmed down and my wife is well enough to see not visitors, but our immediate family.

However because of the break down in the relationship between my wife and my parents, my wife does not want me to let them know if she goes into labour, so that they are not hanging around the hospital or nearby, nor does she want them to visit after the birth until she is ready, which she has indicated could be many hours after the birth, or when we go home, or even a week or so after the birth. She is so stressed out about this she has driven off tonight after writing me a letter saying she doesnt want me at the birth, nor does she want me to be her husband.

I can assure you I have been as supportive of her and her family over the past 10 years more than most people could ever imagine, and as someone who has a rare medical condition with no known cure and an uncertain future, an only child, I don't want to miss out on a special moment for me.

I dont want my parents hanging around or interfering and have made that clear to my wife, I just want to share a moment with my parents, my wife and our baby shortly after they are born when my wife ia well enough.

Surely this isn't me being unreasonable....or is it?

Please share your opinion on this

OP posts:
TheFabulousIdiot · 22/03/2014 15:28

So, what reasons did your wife give for wanting distance between her and your parents?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 22/03/2014 16:10

"You are showing a complete lack of respect to your wife, every time you fail to ask her permission to share something about her, with your parents"

Yes, this struck me as well - given Simba's emphasis on respect for himself.

mathanxiety · 22/03/2014 16:22

When I finished the call I called my dad to let him know where we were and that there was nothing to worry about but let them know where we were.
SDTG -- Simba called her mum (as requested) and his dad (not requested) to say basically 'nothing is wrong'. There was no need for anyone to know about the visit therefore. It was a non-event. The second post on the subject further clarifies that there was nothing wrong with his DW and he knew this when he called. It also clarifies that he had been asked to phone the DW's mum to give an update. Not his parents, just her mum, with whom she had clearly been in contact before and who was possibly worried on account of the lack of signal.

Simba Essentially (unless you haven't told us you had called your parents as soon as you knew your wife was heading for the hospital) you called your dad with news of a non-event doctors always have to sign off on tests in a hospital; the baby will not be discharged without being signed off by a doctor and nor will your DW when the time comes, and I suspect if you have a chronic condition that was at one point life threatening then you are aware of hospital procedure -- and furthermore you called a party not in a position to help without them staying in your house because they live two hours away. So they can't really help with pets, etc. And your wife has made it clear over the years that these people are not going to get a toehold in her home (you have gone over that, in an effort to paint your wife as an unreasonable harpy).

And they couldn't help with the situation in the hospital either even if it had lasted a lot longer and resulted in induction or a CS unless they had got into their car and camped out in the hospital, which would not in fact have been helpful.

Basically what happened was, you called to draw attention to yourself and to hear concerned voices on the other end of the line addressing you. Concern for you is like opium and you are addicted. (And having to tell you every single time something happens to DW that you are not to call your parents could get very old very fast. You are not on paper anyway some unruly child needing a preparatory talk before going to the supermarket, every single time.)

I see it as an expression of underlying jealousy (related to the issue of needing concern because apparently there can only be one person receiving concern here) -- when anyone else gets more attention for their condition than you are used to getting for yours, your world falls apart and must be patched up again immediately by attention-seeking behaviour.

Ominously for the sake of your marriage, your attention-seeking takes the form of waving your arms madly in the direction of people the DW does not want to have breathing down her neck while yelling 'Look at meeeeeeeee, it's my turn now.. Hey! Over here!' but the attention you crave is more important to you than her wishes. The only crisis you are responding to here, Simba, is the one where the spotlight is suddenly not trained on you. For you, the experience your wife is going to go through is only a problem insofar as it robs you of attention. You have only just barely allowed the details of it to register on your consciousness and you have been actively distancing yourself from much of it. Many of the details (calories burned, etc) that are really not important have made a big impression on you.

You are trying very hard to find ways in which her pregnancy can be used a drama in which you can star. Panic is setting in as you realise via the childbirth classes and now this hospital experience that you will be a bit player in it all. Hence the phone calls looking for atttention. This episode where you drew attention to yourself is exactly the same sort of scenario you had in mind for your Pride Rock moment where you would hold the baby aloft for applause from your usual audience who would be seated waiting for The Simba Show to start whenever the wife finally got through with the warm-up act.

I see the control as a tool of the jealousy. If you can relegate your wife to a bit part through the upcoming delivery by overruling her every decision and doing everything you can to get your parents involved to the utmost and paying attention to you, you retain your own starring role, and everyone continues to dance attention upon you. You are very confident your parents will be there for you only. You need this far more than you need your relationship with your wife or your baby, apparently, or you would not be behaving as you are.

Sadly for you but ultimately for the baby, you do not seem to understand that the baby will also steal your limelight, and what you fondly imagine could be your ultimate starring role will find you sidelined as the people who have always put you first become immediately besotted by the baby. I can see you becoming very resentful of this baby as the truth dawns on you.

...................

As we were leaving the hospital waiting for a taxi I told her I had spoken to my parents to mainly let them know where we were, that they hope she is ok and offered help as always if we wished.
The reason to tell her that you had phoned was to illustrate to her by their response that they are perfectly reasonable and kind people who are only trying to help. In other words, despite the fact that your wife had just been through a worrying experience of pain and a few days of feeling unwell and five hours in the hospital, and is facing a painful and scary delivery experience in a few weeks, you are not missing any opportunity to do PR on behalf of your parents.

My dw has felt unwell the past couple of days
We learn very late in the day that while you have been posting here and complaining about your DW's unreasonableness, all this time she has been feeling unwell. So therefore even more attention-seeking on your part is going on in the face of something real and worrying that your wife is going through.
How much whining about her driving and how unanimously badly your friends think of her and how mean she is to your parents and how little she respects you has been mentioned, while all this time the woman herself has been feeling unwell, in late pregnancy, and you knew she was feeling unwell all this time?
How many hundreds of posts have been directed at you while your wife has been getting on with her life, looking at houses, etc. despite feeling unwell, even trying to save money by driving herself to hospital? You keep coming back for more because it is all attention, for you.

Now it seems trampling over your wife's wishes is justified by sheer manliness. There is always some really good reason Hmm to ignore the wife here. It's very clear that you have no intention of listening to your wife, and that everything you do is completely above reproach in your own mind.

We may infer from your complete silence on the medical problem up to now that calling your dad had nothing to do with finding solutions to a medical problem in manly fashion. This was about finding solutions to the only important crisis -- the one where your wife is getting more attention than you.

And again with the 'Man' thing and how different the two of you automatically are (and by extension perhaps, 99% of posters here too) -- your wife is not a member of a different species. You are capable of understanding her and being supportive. Millions of men do this and their wives and partners are eternally grateful. You both speak English. You hear what she is saying. You are choosing not to respect her because to do so would mean ceding the spotlight to her.

mathanxiety · 22/03/2014 16:29

Many of the details (calories burned, etc) that are really not important have made a big impression on you ... while the really important elements, the most important of which is your wife's need for 100% support and understanding on your part you cannot accept at all, because to do so would push you from your position at the centre of the universe.

AskBasil · 22/03/2014 16:54

SDTG, who here has said that Simba's parents hate her wife?

Please don't encourage this deeply unreasonable man to believe his own nonsense by setting up Aunt Sallys and arguing against points no-one has made.

Simba, I'm still not clear on what constitutes irrational driving?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 22/03/2014 17:00

AskBasil - you said:

"Your parents don't care about your dw at all and neither do you"

That's the comment I was replying to!

AcrossthePond55 · 22/03/2014 17:01

math- very good points!

And perhaps all of us here are just feeding his need for attention for, after all, even negative attention is better than no attention at all.

Perhaps it would just be better if we all just posted 'You are hopeless, I give up' and went our merry ways. After all, nothing any of us has said has made a lasting impression.

mathanxiety · 22/03/2014 17:12

I also think Simba distracts his wife's own attention from herself and her pregnancy and impending childbirth by being constantly annoying. By putting the issues she has with his behaviour in her face every chance he gets he ensures this is all about him. Going into labour what will she be thinking about, worrying about? Lying in hospital after the baby is born? Every time he takes out his phone? Any attention is better than none.

AskBasil · 22/03/2014 17:31

STDG, I ask again, where has anyone said his parents hate her?

Where is the word hate in that sentence?

Not caring about someone is not the same as hating them. Please don't argue against points people haven't made, it only encourages this deeply dysfunctional man.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 22/03/2014 17:40

The question remains - how can anyone on this thread, you included, know more about simba's parents' feelings towards his wife? That was the question I was posing, albeit with a tad of exaggeration - the word 'hate' that you are focussing on, in order to avoid the main point of my post.

Astonway · 22/03/2014 17:48

Nowt as queer as folk as they say and def a softly softly approach needed here. As has been said above play it by ear - which is what you have to do anyway! Giving birth is def Mum's show and she has to be empowered and supported. Once home the baby's interests come into it of course and, like having his/her colostrum, being introduced to the grandparents whilst still a newborn is a no-brainer; 'cross your bridges...' as my Mum used to say...
What I find a little disturbing though is the 'my baby' bit?

FetchezLaVache · 22/03/2014 17:59

If I can again briefly join SDTG in the "Simba apologists" camp, I believe his parents are unaware of the full extent to which their DIL dislikes them. They haven't so far actually said when they expect to meet the baby or whether they hope to come to the hospital. By offering their help and good wishes, they're not doing it to wind Mrs Simba up.

Whether, by choosing to pass their comments on, Simba was deliberately seeking to wind Mrs Simba up, on the other hand, is another question.

mathanxiety · 22/03/2014 18:09

I don't think it was to wind her up because Simba seems completely unaware of how he winds her up (and if he knows then he doesn't care except to the extent that doing so makes her forget all else and focus on him.) I think it was to convince her they don't bite. Which of course gets her goat and focuses her attention on him.

mathanxiety · 22/03/2014 18:13

It's impossible to know if Simba's parents would give him a kick in the rear end if they knew how he was behaving or if they would applaud him.

What we do know is that his mother has no tact and has demonstrated that more than once, upset his wife to the extent that she had some sort of breakdown, made some decisions that were not the best in the circumstances when he was young, and his parents moulded him into the person he is today.

squizita · 22/03/2014 18:42

My dw has felt unwell the past couple of days
We learn very late in the day that while you have been posting here and complaining about your DW's unreasonableness, all this time she has been feeling unwell. So therefore even more attention-seeking on your part is going on in the face of something real and worrying that your wife is going through.
How much whining about her driving and how unanimously badly your friends think of her and how mean she is to your parents and how little she respects you has been mentioned, while all this time the woman herself has been feeling unwell, in late pregnancy, and you knew she was feeling unwell all this time?

Just pasting this as I think it needs to be read and re-read. Every moment you've been me-me-meing and having a go at your wife... she's actually been ill?

I second sympathy for you being like a drug. Her not being mummy version 2, because she was ill, either passed you by or pissed you off. NOT normal.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 22/03/2014 18:46

Fetchez - apologist is not quite how I'd put it - but I am prepared to think that simba and his parents might not be as black as the weight of opinion this thread seems to want to paint them. I do think he is insensitive, thoughtless, and doesn't understand how important it is that he understands his wife's needs and feelings, especially at the moment and during and after labour.

I don't think he's 'heard' a lot of what has been said to him on this thread - and I think he needs to listen a lot more carefully to what's been said here (including the bits he has dismissed as 'just crude criticism' - in fact, probably those bits especially), and I think it is very possible that his relationship with his parents is too intense and dependant, and needs to change a lot, if his marriage and family are to survive and thrive.

I just don't think it is as black and white as some seem to be painting it.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 22/03/2014 18:52

I also feel that simba can now do absolutely nothing right. Whatever he says will be spun to paint him as uncaring, self-obsessed, self-pitying etc etc.

No one person on this thread has done this - but taken all together, I fear that this thread has built up an - what was it AskBasil called it - yes, an Aunt Sally, a caricature of a man who has all simba's bad points, magnified to the point of monstrosity, and in whom any possible good points are diminished to,invisibility.

Then everything he says is interpreted in the light of this monstrosity, and so there's no way it could ever be seen as genuine or honest.

I am sure this will not be a popular thing to say, but feel it needs saying. If necessary I will hide this thread, if it gets personal.

mathanxiety · 22/03/2014 19:11

Pretty much everyone has the wrong end of the stick here? This is post 894.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 22/03/2014 19:13

Math, I don't think SDTG is saying everyone is wrong, just that not everything Simba does or thinks is wrong.

LoonvanBoon · 22/03/2014 19:13

I think you've made some fair points, SDTG - in particular the reminder that we really don't know anything about simba's parents' feelings towards his wife.

We don't know very much at all about that relationship - though that is to a large extent because simba has studiously avoided telling us anything concrete about incidents / comments that may have contributed to a relationship breakdown.

I kind of see what you mean too about how a caricature can build up over a thread. And yet it does seem to me that in this case some of simba's own posts have powered that process at least as much as other people's speculations.

But yes, of course we don't see the whole person in threads like this & we can't diagnose psychological conditions over the internet.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 22/03/2014 19:21

I am not saying everyone has got the wrong end of the stick - just that it may not be as black and white as it is being painted.

mathanxiety · 22/03/2014 19:25

He has posted here at length (and many of his posts are attempts at explaining himself which have resulted in his foot going even further into his mouth than where it was in the first place.) I think the majority of posters have hit the nail on the head here.

When over 880 posts have essentially been on the same track, that is not necessarily evidence of a caricature. But when a poster does not change his unreasonable pov and in fact does exactly what he has been advised not to do after over 800 posts warning him, then that poster has justified the expectations. It's not a caricature when someone does that. It's accurate general opinion.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 22/03/2014 19:32

So - when he says something that paints him in a bad light, we do not question the accuracy of what he says, but if he says his mum is fond of his wife! that cannot be true, and a poster can flatly contradict him and say that simba's parents do not care for his wife at all?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 22/03/2014 19:33

Apologies for the stray exclamation mark - why the bloody hell does the iPad keep changing my commas to exclamation marks?

AskBasil · 22/03/2014 19:44

"the word 'hate' that you are focussing on, in order to avoid the main point of my post."

Why are you saying that? I focused on the word hate not to avoid the main point of your post, but because I actually think that it is an important distinction, hatred vs lack of care and I don't want you to give Simba something to latch on to that he can spend ages refuting (unnecessarily because no-one's arguing that) while avoiding the things people are actually saying. Please don't attribute devious motives to me, it's not polite. The reason I say that the parents don't care about her, is as I stated in the post - that if you care about someone, you respect their wishes (except in exceptional circs, like their wishes are unreasonable due to being under the influence of mind-altering drugs or temporarily insane or somesuch).

But I accept that we can't know for sure how aware they are of Mrs Simba's dislike for them, so it is possible that it is not indifference to her feelings on their part (not hatred Hmm) which leads them to suggest the exact thing that will wind her up most, but ignorance of her feelings. However, Simba has hinted in his oblique way (because he hardly ever gives us actual facts) that the tension is not all coming from his wife - he hinted at his mother making nasty comments in one of his endless self-justifying posts. It's such a long thread that I can't be arsed to go back and find it but it's definitely there somewhere.