Am I being unreasonable? Dad to be...please help

[simba86]

My wife and I, married for 3 years, together for 10, in our late 20s are expecting our first child at the end of May.

My wife has never really got on with my parents, particularly my mum, and whilst they live 2 hours away we see them ever couple of months.

I am obviously very excited about becoming a dad. I love my wife more than anyone in the world and so much looking forward to having our own family. I am also looking forward to being a proud dad and introducing our baby to my parents shortly after the birth, when everything has calmed down and my wife is well enough to see not visitors, but our immediate family.

However because of the break down in the relationship between my wife and my parents, my wife does not want me to let them know if she goes into labour, so that they are not hanging around the hospital or nearby, nor does she want them to visit after the birth until she is ready, which she has indicated could be many hours after the birth, or when we go home, or even a week or so after the birth. She is so stressed out about this she has driven off tonight after writing me a letter saying she doesnt want me at the birth, nor does she want me to be her husband.

I can assure you I have been as supportive of her and her family over the past 10 years more than most people could ever imagine, and as someone who has a rare medical condition with no known cure and an uncertain future, an only child, I don't want to miss out on a special moment for me.

I dont want my parents hanging around or interfering and have made that clear to my wife, I just want to share a moment with my parents, my wife and our baby shortly after they are born when my wife ia well enough.

Surely this isn't me being unreasonable....or is it?

Please share your opinion on this

You didn't answer my question Simba

Does your wife post on Mumsnet?

So your wife is pathetic for not bowing to your demands now ? You 'expected' that you would be able to present your baby to your parents as and when you saw fit, regardless of the condition of baby or mother? Your own parents had a difficult time around your birth, so now you're going to tear your own baby away from his or her mother so that your own parents can get their magical newborn moment ?

Your wife probably wants her own mother there to support her - frankly I hope she does , because she is going to need it. The more you post , the less you sound like a clueless naive father to be - now you're coming across as a man who expects to control his wife including total control of her body and medical rights, and is quite willing to get nasty when she doesn't comply.

You also seem to believe that the baby is an extension of you, rather than a tiny helpless baby with enormous needs , all of which centre around his or her mother.

For your wife's sake I hope she is close to her mother, so she has the option to have a supportive birth partner with her. And I hope she has the courage not to have you with her if all you're going to do is bully her.

Interesting squiz - I wonder if the OP has some similar circumstances?

OP - At the risk of appearing rude, is English your first language? I ask because some of the phrasing you've used sounds as though it is a case of saying one thing, but possibly meaning another, and that's getting a little "lost in translation".

I also think that you're getting some of the different themes on the thread muddled. You now realise that the actual birth bit is not going to be a five-minute puff/pant/pop situation, and that your wife may feel shocked/elated/traumatised/physically damaged/unchanged by the actual birth experience. The point is - the whole situation is unpredictable.
It is not a case of 20 minutes from waters breaking to onset of labour, labour lasting 3 hours, birth taking 40 minutes....

Also, once the physical birth experience has taken place there is a whole raft of hormones hitting your wife's already exhausted system.

The hospital may not have a visiting room. The one I delivered my DD in didn't. Visitors were permitted between set hours. They stood/sat beside the bed and you could pull a curtain around for "privacy". On a ward with 30 other new mothers/mothers to be. Where relationships are strained, this is NOT a helpful scenario.

It may be that you're using a hospital where you wife has a private room in which case, that may alleviate some of the pressure.

BUT - and this is the key thing. YOU are no longer the centre of your wife's world. Your newborn child is. Your wife has grown this infant inside her body for 9 months. She has probably felt tired, stressed, sore,nauseous, unattractive, incapable of things as the pregnancy has progressed.
Suddenly, the child is outside her body. Whichever way it is delivered, she is bound to feel that she had little control over the experience, and overwhelmed.
On the ward in the hospital there will be little opportunity to rest. The midwives/staff will be encouraging her to 'bond' with this newborn infant. It is likely to be red, angry-looking, and cry a lot. A lot. And then it will probably cry some more. As will all the other babies on the ward.
The ward will be hot.
Your wife will be sore.
Your wife is not likely to get any sleep.
If your wife ends up staying overnight or longer, she may not get much to eat/eat at the times she wants.
Depending on the delivery, she may be checked by medical staff regularly. I don't mean they will get a stethoscope out and listen to her chest, I mean they'll be looking at her most intimate areas to assess healing, etc. Her toilet visits may be monitored/scrutinised to ensure they are 'normal'. This can be embarrassing.
She may be encouraged to breastfeed. This will take time to get used to. It is upsetting, frustrating, and exhausting.
The baby will need changing. The nappy will be scary. The wound on the baby from the cutting of the umbilical cord may look scary or sore.
She may feel that the medical staff expect her to know everything from the start, and she may feel out of her depth.
In fact, every single thing in those first few days is an absolutely monumental learning curve and a sense of overwhelming responsibility.

If your wife is hoping to continue breastfeed your child then she may need time to acclimatise to doing this. She may want privacy. She may need support. Or, she may decide it will be easier to bottle feed. Or go with a combination. The hospital may make her feel that any one of these decisions is better than another. And the baby has to learn to feed.

What I am saying is that nothing is going to be simple, and much will be out of your (and your wife's) control.

So... the best thing for you to do is to ensure that anyone coming to visit is on her terms.

Having visited family members with newborn children, it really is not that exciting. It's always been much better a few weeks on when they're settled in their own home, and have had some sleep.

Op if you do come back. The opinions on here must shout out to you

no-one forgets a bad experience with visiting inlaws

Not even 9 years later. She won't ever forgive them if they upset her, and in turn you if you let them

"...What I am asking is if something is important to your partner surely as I have always tried, you do what you can to make it happen...."

It is important to your wife that she is allowed to decide when she sees her ILs - and yes, because she's the one who will be going through labour and delivery, she is the one whose opinions matter most at this point.

It sounds as if your relationship with your parents, particularly your mother, is the most important relationship in your life. But now you are married, Simba, and about to be a father, the most important relationship in your life should be the one between you, your wife and your child. It is time for you to put your family FIRST - above your relationship with your parents, above your family unit with your mum and dad.

Other people have told you this, but I am not sure you have taken it on board - putting even subtle pressure on your wife to see her ILs before she's ready, or to let you take the baby out of her sight to see her ILs, IS GOING TO BE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. It could well make her more reluctant to see them, and you might have to wait longer before you get to introduce your parents to the baby.

Importantly, though, on the flip side - if your wife feels you are 100% on her side, she is far more likely to feel relaxed and happy, and that will make her feel better able to cope with seeing her ILs - so it could happen sooner rather than later.

And please don't kid yourself that she will not pick up on the fact that you aren't happy with the current agreement - she will be sensing that you don't really believe what you are saying, and that you are really hoping for a compromise - by which - IF YOU ARE HONEST - you actually mean you are hoping SHE will compromise!

She is being entirely normal and reasonable. She is not 'dictating', even from what you've written, she's just saying 'let's wait and see and play it by ear at the time'. Sensible, normal, reasonable, perfectly considerate towards all concerned.

You read like you are already preparing your case for access, post-divorce. (You'll find that is all about the children's rights, not yours, too).

You plainly have NOT taken on board what people are saying. Just two examples:

I and others, very helpfully and sympathetically, advised you against adopting a perspective of 'rights' two days ago. So you 'took that on board' by dismissing us as wrong, is that right?

You have fantasy image of post-natal wards with visiting rooms, which plenty of people have debunked for you and, of it being normal and desirable for babies to be removed from their mothers to such rooms, to meet visitors, likewise.

On Friday, I almost posted that, based on the way you represent yourself as the voice of reason - stubbornly and without much insight, evidence or self-awareness - and dismiss people who disagree with you, your wife and us included, as irrational, self-absorbed or thoughtless, I could understand entirely why your wife would get so frustrated with your stubborn arrogance, closed-mindedness and dismissal of her views as being of less value than yours, that she would storm out of the house.

I could see a parallel in the way you dismissed our experience, in as far as it didn't suit you or your fantastical pre-conceptions, while paradoxically reiterating your status as a person of reason.

I thought that was a bit harsh at the time though, based perhaps on taking the worst inteterpretation of your posts.

You've certainly proven me right now!

The fact that you were so (understandably) utterly precious to your parents has, I feel, made you lack empathy for anyone other than your family unit. That is you and your parents. You say you love your wife and would do anything for her, but this thread suggests otherwise.

^^this. Your poor wife - if you go on like this I hope she has you banned from the hospital too.

Btw, have you not grasped that her mother would be there in order to support your wife and make labour easier, not as a 'privilege'?

If you want to get all competitive, then rather than focusing on which GPs will see the baby first, how about focusing on who can be most supportive to your wife in labour and make her most comfortable? Or even on working as a team with her mother to do so? Oh, your wife is the judge and her decision is final.

It would be lovely if you and her mother are both able to offer the best possible support, calmly, together, to the extent your wife wishes. At the rate you're going though she may well chose her mother instead of you.

And really interesting points squizita, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was some truth in that - 'I must do anything to avoid upset to my saintly mother and put her wishes first at all costs. I owe it to her'. Yes, I know someone who, with some similarities in background, has remained far too in thrall to his mother in adulthood, to the extent that he lost his fiancée and a planned and paid for wedding over it. She wanted him but couldn't live in a three-way relationship with his mother and he wasn't willing to put her first.

I've skimmed most of this and Simba, you are being utterly childish, naive and totally selfish.

My brother has a similar relationship with our mum as I'm sensing you do. She has always been the centre of his world and vice versa.

On the day my sister in law went into labour with their first baby, he called our mum straight away with the news. Our mum then called him on the hour, every hour for an update. After 7 hours of these calls - plus random texts inbetween - my poor SIL, while in the throws of her first labour, called me, begging me to make the calls stop. I called my mum, explained, it ended in a nasty row between us, and she stopped calling. However, she went and camped outside the labour ward intstead. My SIL did have some horrific complications (that I won't scare you with op as its rare) she refused to leave the hospital so in the end my SIL gave in and let her in once back on the ward. Unshowered, bleeding, in agony, exhausted and traumatised she had my over bearing mother snatching her precious baby girl away from her, taking her for a stroll around the ward!

The effect of my mothers behaviour on that day is still a very sensitive issue over 2 years later. It also meant that she had no involvement in the birth of my son 10 months later. She was called once we were safely back on the ward, told what time to visit and how long She could stay. Her behaviour cause a near breakdown in my brother and SILs marriage. My brother deeply regrets what he did, at the time he was nervous and excited and not thinking clearly about his priority.

My own husband is also an only child and his parents live abroad. Ilike your wife OP, i do not get on with my inlaws, initially they wanted to be in the country for the birth and stay with us 'to help' for the first two weeks. I said no to both. DH was very understanding and told them no. It was hard for him but he respected my wishes.

It was absolutely the right thing to do. My own birth did not go well and I had a c section. I was physically and emotionally traumatised for weeks afterwards and cried every day. I could not have dealt with visitors at all, even family. My pregnancy had been 'text book' and my midwife didn't anticipate any issue. As it happened, everything went wrong. My husband kept his parents away for 5 weeks until I was physically and emotionally able to deal with them. I'd add that during this time I only saw my own family (who live very nearby) a few times. DH kept everyone updated with pictures and updates, but I just couldn't face the world at all. Knowing that DH was 100% on my side made a huge difference to my recovery and, I believe, stopped me from developing post natal depression. He was my rock and my word on anything at that time was what we did.

I'm telling you this OP to help you understand that your wife needs to trust her instincts, and if that means who SHEwants, when SHE wants then so be it. You absolutely must do whatever makes her feel safe at this terrifying time. She needs you to be all hers right now. Please, as someone that's experienced this from both sides of the family, tell your poor wife that you'll do whatever she needs. In time, your parents will understand.

Teatimecakes - I hope that Simba appreciates the time and effort (especially emotional effort) that you put into writing that post, and sharing those stories, and for the sake of his wife, I hope that he understands what you are telling him.

I am staggered by the overwhelming attitude that I should just do whatever she wants to save any damageto the relationship. So if she doesnt want her mum in the delivery suite before during or after for support for her, but wants her to meet the baby shortly after, then if that's what she wants thats fine is it? And I should just accept that if her seeing the ils it will stress her out so that's not something I should allow to happen?

Yes, that is exactly what you should accept and 'allow'. They day you squeeze a melon out of your arsehole and have to deal with the consequences, you will get to dictate the visiting schedule after.

It is nothing other than me wishing to share a moment with my parents who nursed me for many many years when they were told I would not live, consequently I never had any other siblings and frankly they did.not expect this day to come.

How sweet. What exactly has that got to do with this situation?

Sharp One thing that strikes me is although the childhood trauma has left his with a pathological sense of obligation and unity with his mum, his lack of ability to apply that situation from his childhood to the present i.e. When he was a baby, he was very, very sick and his mum had to give him 100% to ensure he survived.
So... where is his understanding that babies/new mums can be ill, and that this can be a situation requiring 110% of the mums attention.
Or does he think that it happened in his case only and there's nothing like that ever going to happen again?

I was in the SCBU as a baby (and have had previous losses). Consequently I've already spoken to relatives about the help I might need - because I'm acutely aware of how risky it is. DH understands my concerns, based on my understanding I was in grave danger as a newborn myself.
Has he not applied that to the future? Or is it 'his' one-off history. Maybe he should ask his mum what she would have done if visitors had barged in on HIS sick-bed as a child? (Harsh, but perhaps needs to be done).

I'm afraid I am seeing F4J in the OP's future....

To be honest, I think if I was the lady in question, I'd go and stay with my parents for the month or so before the birth was due. Labour could come and go without his interference, and he and the in-laws could be informed once I was home safely (and with my parents present to deal with any issues). It must be like being married to a selfish, tantruming five year old!

I do feel op that your illness is relevant in this - you are a precious only child to your parents. Do they still coddle you, are you always right as far as they are concerned, is it a case that no woman would have been good enough for their precious boy ? A "babied" husband can become difficult to respect - perhaps she needs the distance to see you as a husband rather than their special son who nearly died

But you chose to marry a woman who did not get on with them and now you have chosen to have a child with her. Now you are expecting her to change who she is, show respect and do what you want. You have chosen the point in her life when she is most vulnerable and dependant upon you to have a conversation which quite frankly you should have had years ago....why have you chosen now to have this discussion? Were you afraid pre-pregnancy that she may decide to leave?

I do find, as other people have pointed out, that some of your comments/attitudes are disturbing - id hate you to end up as a "weekend dad" if you mess this up and the marriage doesn't survive.

Yes marriage involves compromise but you are deliberately choosing to find your inner alpha male and assert your "rights" at the worst time most damaging you possibly can. If I were your wife it would not be encouraging me to respect you.

Do you actually know that your parents want to visit so soon? Having been through it already, they may have a different view regarding the mother's feelings.

I can't believe I am arguing on the side of a man- but I do think people are being a bit extreme. There are some horrible stories on here about hideously insensitive and intrusive parents and in laws. And accounts of many extreme situations. The OP has said from the start that he doesn't want his parents hanging about or getting in the way- all he wants is for his parents to meet his baby as soon as they can. I think a new mother should have absolute control over who visits her. But I still don't understand why the OP is not allowed to take his own baby for a brief walk to show it to his parents.

Mart, a brief walk at home or at the hospital?

Tell ya what OP, just give up and get your wife on here instead. You're clearly not getting it, and at least she'd get some moral support for what seem like they're going to be difficult times ahead for her.

I wondered that too GarthsUncle. His mum might turn out to be a whole lot more pragmatic, experienced and sensitive than he is and be horrified at the way he's carrying on.

Personally I saw my MIL the day after my baby was born, at home, both PILs the next day and MIL came over for dinner a couple of days after that. All great, as we get on and they have the sense and sensitivity not to be intrusive or demanding. We certainly didn't call them when in labour, they got a call a couple of hours after she was born. They left flowers and some dinner for us on our doorstep that day (and provided further dishes in the following days). Those early days were exhausting, attempting to feed dd was stressful but they were also joyful and are mostly a very lovely memory.

In contrast to a few earlier posters, I don't see this thread as 'anti-MIL' at all, it is 'anti causing lots of pointless stress to a post-partum woman'. It's also 'pro establishing a good relationship between baby and GPs from the start', so timing the start to further, not hinder, that process.

But...if she tries to drag out the time this could be done (and to me this would be anytime after the doctors who I respect as being independent) confirmed they were happy for her to have visitors, then I would expect my right as a dad to allow me to show my son or daughter to my parents, if just very very briefly.

OMFG.

You think your wife might play games with you for the sake of keeping your precious parents out of her hospital room?

And no matter what your wife feels you are going to ask the doctors to judge whether it's ok for her thatyour parents will see her all bloody and with milk leaking and barely able to remember her own name from exhaustion.

Your fucking 'right as a dad'?????????????????????????????????

"In contrast to a few earlier posters, I don't see this thread as 'anti-MIL' at all, it is 'anti causing lots of pointless stress to a post-partum woman'. It's also 'pro establishing a good relationship between baby and GPs from the start', so timing the start to further, not hinder, that process."

Yes to this - if it was her own mother or brother or aunt that DW had a less good relatuonship with, I think the advice to "play it by ear, go by what she feels is right and when she's ready" would be the same.

WTAF do you think you are playing at? You intend to use this incredibly painful and difficult event for your wife (which includes the aftermath, and that can mean weeks) to foist upon her people she does not like or want there?

You keep on saying you feel really inadequate and helpless in the face of the pain she will go through and you wring your hands at the fact that you as a man can't fully appreciate her feelings or her physical pain -- and then you go ahead and decide it will be ok to run roughshod over her feelings (which she has made perfectly clear to you, in writing) and ignore the physical and emotional reality she faces after giving birth on the basis that you have rights as a dad...

If 'all this is about' is 'just five minutes' of the baby with your parents then why are you so willing to railroad your wife into it?

Surely they can have their five minutes when your wife is feeling more up to entertaining visitors (and no I do not mean surely your wife could do it when the doctors side with you and say she can).

'Yes marriage involves compromise but you are deliberately choosing to find your inner alpha male and assert your "rights" at the worst time most damaging you possibly can.'
What you are doing is bullying her.
Contemplating dragging the doctors into it is reprehensible -- do you honestly think you would stoop so low?

'Your wife probably wants her own mother there to support her - frankly I hope she does , because she is going to need it. The more you post , the less you sound like a clueless naive father to be - now you're coming across as a man who expects to control his wife including total control of her body and medical rights, and is quite willing to get nasty when she doesn't comply.'

You also seem to believe that the baby is an extension of you, rather than a tiny helpless baby with enormous needs , all of which centre around his or her mother.'
By the looks of things, that is going to come as a real blow to your lion-sized ego.

And if your parents, knowing your wife does not get along with them, could contemplate foisting themselves on her while she is so unable to do so on her own terms and with her personal dignity intact, shame on them too.

You need to grow up -- you do not need mummy there holding your hand through this. Someone else needs you. I suspect your desire to have your parents hovering is all about panic in the face of having to now play a grown up role you feel deep down you are not ready for, and substituting controlling, boorish behaviour and speech where maturity and putting someone else's needs before yours is called for. All the talk of rights and equality and being a man out of his depth in this situation is about an immature personality finding yourself in a crisis of adulthood.

Grow up. Be a real man -- a husband first and a son second.

Martorana - your question, "But I still don't understand why the OP is not allowed to take his own baby for a brief walk to show it to his parents." was answered best! IMO, by FairPhyllis, when she said:

"IMO a newborn is still totally dependent on its mother - for food if bfing, and for comfort. Her smell, the sound of her heartbeat and the sound of her voice are all that it knows. To all extents and purposes a newborn in the first weeks of its life is essentially inseparable from the mother and she will have a very strong bond with it - stronger than yours will be at that point. Your wife will have an overpowering instinct to protect the baby and if you start passing the baby around before she is comfortable with that, she will be very upset, and, judging by many threads on here, will remember and resent it for a very long time."

I think that explains really clearly why a new born baby needs their mum, and why many, many new mums would feel very unhappy indeed if their newborn was taken out of their sight.

I also,think that the fact that the wife does not get on with her ILs is a significant factor. The OP would be asking his wife to let her new baby be taken away to be handed to someone she really doesn't like - and though obviously the ILs should get to have lots of cuddles with their gc, and should get the chance to develop a good relationship - but it might be a bit much to ask the new mum to be happy with this in those first, hormonal, exhausting, emotional days of motherhood.