My dh just informed me that....

[BekkiKay]

if women in childbirth would just be quiet and go off on their own behind a bush it would be easier, safer and the more natural way to do things.
I've argued until I was blue in the face that there is no such thing as natural and how could keping quiet help the birth process. He has just said thats what plains indians do. Before we kill each other in this debate could someone shed some light on childbirth in times past or less developed countries. Statistics very welcome-Zebra?

Well, apparently I shouted 'f**k" repeatedly for about 7 hours so your husband would hate me! Wasn't aware of it at the time, just how my body and mind reacted to labour... but it seems to have helped because I got through on gas and air. I'm not implying labours that require more intervention/pain relief are somehow 'worse', just that's how it worked for me. Next time, if there is one, who knows?

Heya B'Kay:
I think HMB beat me to it. All I really know, and it convinces me, is that childbirth is still the leading cause of death in the developing world among women of child-bearing ages. I'm sure that a lot could be done to make childbirth safer in the developing world without going the high intervention route the West is into.... but it's undoubtedly true that childbirth is very very tough, and potentially dangerous for most of us. I would not like to go through it without somebody on hand who is more experienced in these things than me.

In the Homebirth community I encounter women who are adament fans of unassisted childbirth, even unassisted pregnancy, too. A few of these women already have 8+ kids and they are willing to assume responsibility for all the risks, so although I don't like it, you can't say they don't know what childbirth is like and they aren't shifting blame to anyone else if things go wrong. BUT... deep in my heart, I still feel it's mad. Giving birth is overwhelming; It's an unusual woman who can think straight through it.

You try giving birth behind a bush with placenta praevia and see how long you last...

Precisely!
BKay: does your DH think animals can do it, so why can't people? He obviously hasn't seen enough episodes of Animal Hospital, or ever read a James Herriot book, or ever looked into the mortality rates among pregnant guinea pigs (frightfully high).

Just how hygenic is it behind a bush? And I suggest you choose your bush carefully - no holly or hawthorn!

Let alone Poison oak, Poison Ivy, Japanese Knotweed or nettles -- well, at least you could fry up the placenta & the nettles together for a tasy high-in-iron snack afterwards.

ROTFL!

Message withdrawn

A blackberry bush would be good for a quick snack during labour. Only in the autumn, obviously and it might be a bit too chilly then.

My husband has a chip on his shoulder about most things. He says if you are going to have an opinion you better make sure that you stick to it and shout about it. TBH his opinions are getting me down. He can't just accept the miracle of birth and the power of women in labour he has to stamp all over it.
He is now saying that I took what he said out of context. What he was actually saying was that women should be quiter in the second stage of labour so that all their energy can go to coping with the pain and pushing. His example of plains indians was just that apparently, an example that it can be done in silence. "All that screaming must have a negative effect" he keeps saying that over and over so I thought I'd better add it.

Has it ever occurred (spelling?) to him that other people may be better informed on certain subjects? People who have actually given birth, for instance?! If your central heating broke down, would he insist that the plumber fixed it 'his' way?

Eddm - by the sounds of things yes! (Sorry BKay.)

Actually, I think that's a common feeling that BKay's DH has. My midwives said that I was putting too much energy into yelling and not enough into birthing the baby .... thing is, that's how I dealt with the pain. I realised that with my 2nd labour and the screamign worked with the contrax, if that makes sense.

Well I have no idea if this is true or a joke, but -

"Traditionally, a father among the Huichol Indians would sit in the rafters above his labouring wife with a rope tied around his testicles. The wife would tug on the rope with every painful contraction so that they could both share the pain of bringing a new life into the world?"

Guess he could squat on the other side of the bush, with the rope passed underneath the bush?

zebra - that's what my midwife said!

If I wasn't putting so much energy into pushing I would have hit her.

Zerub, that's fantastic!

Every single oral and literary culture perpetrated by women says that childbirth hurts like f*ck. Which gets tied in with women's subservient role as well ('in pain and sorrow shalt thou bring forth children' etc etc etc).

Although bizarrely enough my second labour was one of the few episodes of my life when I actually shut up

Zerub, that's fantastic!!! where did you get it from??? i would like to show it to some my machist friends that keep making jokes about my European husband because he helps me to take care of DS

BekkiKay, I like Lisa78's idea for enlightening your DH too. MI, oooh, I was going to say something about Eve and sorrow etc but you beat me to it My midwives also told me to stop screaming and dp reckoned they were right since I was putting my energy into that rather than pushing. Yeah, right.

Completely off topic - but did you get my e-mail www?

Chandra, I'd heard the thing about the Indians and the rope before but I got that quote from here .

Interesting (possibly) fact about the Eve pain & sorrow thing. The word translated "sorrow" in Genesis when God is telling Eve what her punishment is for disobeying him, is the same word that is translated "toil" when God is telling Adam what his punishment is. When the word is used elsewhere in the bible it means "hard work". We have the translators of the King James bible to thank for all this "you have to suffer in childbirth" cr*p. Sorry, totally off topic!

Prufrock, yes and replied at about 5am this morning. Didn't you get it? (sorry everyone)

Oh zerub, I don't think it's off topic, how interesting.

Message withdrawn

Members of the church of scientology are also expected to birth in silence.