Ok, so which MNer gave birth in my campsite this morning? I have some questions....

[TorchlightMcKenzie]

like, how did you fill the birth pool?
How did you keep hot?
How did you empty it?
Did you also deliver the placenta in the bell tent?

And many MANY more!

And, can I meet you? Am also in bell tent with 7 week old!

"So three sets of neighbours. So lets say 4 x 3 = 12 people. People you have probably at least said hi to at some point, and maybe even have a good relationship with."

No - I live in a small London street in a rough area where many of the flats are short let. I only know 2 out of the dozen or so people I imagine who were woken up by my home birth.

In any case - I don't give a shit. It's a fucking birth. Not something that happens every day in most people's lives, and usually something to be celebrated.

This is honestly the first time on this board I've seen a woman's birth choices so roundly sneered at, criticised and moralised over. I'm finding it very ugly.

the story sounds lovely in the kent online, i don't think it really matters and i imagine they HAVE got the money to pay £££ if people were with them fgs

Anyone who calls their daughter Jazz, themselves Galadriel, calls her birthing partner a doula and does the hand-fasting thingy is fair game for a spot of piss taking in my book.

She's hardly likely to be devastated I think that, shag.

"Shag - have you ever camped - if you did you would know how sound carries - especially in the middle of the night - may aswell be in the same tent as woman giving birth !"

Yes I camp. Can't afford to do anything else. Yes sound carries. You are making so many assumptions about the level of noise and the number of people who were disturbed by this birth on the basis of what evidence? And what about if someone took a baby camping and the baby cried all night? Would you be just as judgemental then? This has happened to me more than once. You could argue you just shouldn't go camping with a baby. You don't have to!

And you have NO idea about their finances or whether they even PAID their midwife anything or the usual rate. I'm sure I read that the mother is a midwife herself maybe she paid 'mates rates' or didn't pay at all. In any case, why does it matter about their finances? Unless it's another chance to have a pop at them? How does it make them unworthy human beings to be able to afford to pay a midwife and volunteer at the same time. It makes about as much sense to sneer at them volunteering while still being able to afford to run a car - as this costs as much over the course of a year for most people as the cost of hiring a midwife.

It's the first time on here that I have seen a woman's birth choices be so laughable and also so selfish.

I'm sure it was a lovely moment for the couple in question but to expect everyone else to enjoy it, or put up with it basically was out of order.

I am being judgmental as I think they need to get a grip. I'm sure they are lovely people in most ways but this was not a particularly nice thing to do.

I don't think it is nasty to point that out.

It is probably nasty to be mocking her name but it is just part of the picture that makes me think (and I may be wrong, of course) that this couple's priorities are a bit out of sync with those around them, and all for effect.

Well I tried to explain in a polite and reasonable and actually scientific way why I have an objection...

...and who put all the emotion into the debate?

we all know you call yourself general numberlock down tesco, i have always looked aghast when you insist on the general numberlock theme but you seem quite comfortable with it so who am i to judge?

I dont think the mother will be devasted at any comments made - if she can give birth in a birthing pool in a campsite she can deal with most piss take things.

yes butthe scampsite was in thanet my dear, anything goes

I have no problem with people camping with babies.

BIG difference between babies crying (which you would expect) and someone giving birth in the tent next to you, with no warning.

"Anyone who calls their daughter Jazz, themselves Galadriel, calls her birthing partner a doula and does the hand-fasting thingy is fair game for a spot of piss taking in my book.

She's hardly likely to be devastated I think that, shag."

What about if she's called Isabelle, buys her clothes at Boden, has a daughter called Olivia and got married in a Cotswold church with all her university friends braying their congratulations? And everyone was taking the piss about her having an epidural and giving birth in hospital?

And it's not so much the mocking of her name or the eccentricities of her marriage or relationship which bothers me, it's the moralising about her having given birth on a campsite. The suggestion that she's a shit person for making this choice. As I said - nasty.

do you mind people weeing ina bucket next to you?

this always cracks me up

"BIG difference between babies crying (which you would expect) and someone giving birth in the tent next to you, with no warning"

They're both unpleasant sounds which would keep you awake.

The difference is that one happens all the time and isn't judged, and the other is likely to happen once in a lifetime for those other campers, and is considered a moral outrage on mumsnet.

A very inconsiderate person - not a shit person - get it right Shag .

shag Those people are just the other side of the same middle class coin.

I've not referred to her birth, I'm just laughing cos it's Modern Parents through and through. A complete caricature.

No one has suggested she is a shit person. Just that it was a shit choice, and very selfish.

Birth is a traumatic thing and often there is no element of choice.
You might argue it's selfish to give birth in your own home when it will disturb other people. But in that instance it is the only place you have access to, in the context of 'other than hospital' venues, so I think it can be forgiven.

To choose to do it somewhere you KNOW it will cause inconvenience and disturbance to others, when you don't actually have to do it there, I think is overstepping the mark.

As I said before I don't have much choice where I give birth unless I take out a fortnight's booking at the hospital. I cannot get there if I go into labour, I'm alone, no one can drive me there, it is about an hour away. My last labour was 3 hours, and full on from the start. My midwife has told me I should have a home birth.

I have neighbours I get on with and will apologise to - I will keep noise to a minimum, and the windows closed. I will buy them gifts to try and make up for it.

I will not go and camp out somewhere and take up everyone else's hot water supply and keep their children awake all night, just because it sounds like a nice idea for me.

Can you see the difference?

"do you mind people weeing ina bucket next to you?"

So attention seeking. I mean - there are usually toilets on campsites. Why don't people use them instead of subjecting their neighbours to the sickmaking sounds of them noisily voiding their bladders? Yuck.

Honestly, when I think of all the shit things that have happened to me while camping - drunken idiots crashing into the tent, children vomiting in their sleeping bags, couples having horrible arguments on the pitch next to us, catastrophic tent leaks - some woman moaning for a few hours then appearing next door with a delicious newborn baby would be very far from being at the top of a list of things which would ruin my holiday.

Argh, it's NOT the home birth aspect. Don't you get that? It's the attention seeking. Here we go full circle.

Yeah they are inconsiderate things too.

Doesn't make having a baby in a tent on holiday any less inconsiderate though.

And not everyone is thrilled about seeing a newborn anyway... you make the assumption that everyone should/would be.

Personally I don't care how, or where women decide to give birth. What I do care about is people thinking it is ok to monopolise shared facilities for a long period of time. Those showers were for everyone, and it was rude and selfish to effectively shut down 50% of them for an entire morning.

I'd smile if she'd decided to give birth privately in her tent without the whole birthing pool / shower hogging / call to the papers bollocks.

someone on here was on the campsite and thought it was fine
someone else on there said it upset their daughters
we haven' heard from anyone but it's the kent coast, they are used to noise believe me. I have never lived in a noisier place! :)

She chose an inappropriate place to give birth. It is entirely possible to give birth outside in a tent without hogging the showers, disturbing holidaymakers (who might only get a holiday once in a while), etc etc...

Mind you, if she wasn't in a packed campsite she wouldn't have got the attention she so obviously craves.

lol @ someone monopolising the facilities

it takes me ages to poo when i go camping, i can't cope with anyone else being in the next cubicle (is that too much information? )

What a pair of tits!! and shag-get the fuck over yourself!! you are berating everyone else for being judgy and yet you are the doing the very same thing?!!.....