Avoiding negative reinforcement of labour experience. Bloody impossible it would seem?

[ChineapplePunk]

This is just going to be a moan thread, so be forewarned. :)

I absolutely understand that my impending childbirth is, by it's vary nature, an unknown scenario, and I am fully aware that anything can happen and an open mind is essential. However, when trying to adopt a positive attitude towards childbirth, it would seem that you are fighting a losing battle. At every turn the media, the public, AND the medical profession constantly push the idea of unbearable pain, inevitable intervention, and trauma.

I've just completed a hypnobirthing course and absolutely accept that my birth experience can be a fulfilling, trauma-free, and manageable process (barring any unforeseen medical emergencies, and even then, I feel that I have the tools to cope with this). I guess I'm just PO'd with the barriers that are in place when trying to maintain a positive outlook, which is at the core of preparing for a natural, calm, and relaxed birth. It's difficult to not let these negative reinforcements mess with your head. A case in point - DH and I attended a physio/antenatal class this week and the physiotherapist started the introduction with, "I'll try to make this class as quick and painless as possible, UNLIKE your Labour"!!!!???? And then had the audacity later on in the class to stress the importance of staying positive and relaxed in regard to labour, as "tensing up" is one of the worst things you can do. She also peppered the class with little clichéd molten droplets of wisdom such as, "they don't call it Labour for nothing". Yawn.

It would seem to me that, short of living in a bubble for the next two months, the negative reinforcement that women receive is absolutely unavoidable. In saying that, at least this rant proves that I am going to rally against this BS at every available opportunity and return my head to "the good place". :-)

I think it is possible to accept that on the whole, most women find labour bloody painful and hard work! However, I knew I expected it to be painful, but was positive about it anyway. Until I had issues I was in excrutiating pain, but was fully accepting of it and coping with it because it was a temporary state, and the end goal was going to be magnificent . There would be little point in telling people it didn't hurt, and for the majority it does. But it is pain with a purpose, which makes it far easier to bear than any other in my opinion.

I think 'pain with a purpose' is a very good way of talking about it Ninkynonker - my gripe is with a certain bit of the medical establishment that I seem to have come into contact with and that emphases what it envisages as my inevitable future helplessness, the inevitable 'unbearability' of the quality of my labour pains, and exactly how much I'm inevitably going to need their pain relief and expertise to save me from my own ridiculous ideas about the possibility of my baby's birth not being horrendous.

Obviously, I don't know - I've never done this before - I may need medical intervention, I may not be able to manage without pain relief. I can't predict what my body and my baby's body are going to do. But neither can they, and the continual reinforcement of the Unbearable Agony To Come stuff is really unhelpful and depressing.

It's not just classes. Women do it to each other too with the whole "ha, you'll be screaming for an epidural" type thing when you mention eg water birth. OTOH, you do hear women say they wish someone had told them how painful it could be.

My friend's mum told me it would be painful but never more than I could bear - which turned out to be spot on, but what if I had had unbearable pain? I would feel differently then...it's very hard to get right. I am a trainee antenatal teacher and I very much hope I will get it right at least some of the time

HardCheese - interesting what you say about "the only important outcome is a healthy baby" - I agree with you, but there are lots of posts on MN saying exactly that, usually because they didn't have the amazing birth experience they feel they were "sold".

My sister and I both went into birth with a positive mindset and had more or less the experiences we were hoping for...but I know others who did the same preparation and had a whole lot of intervention and complications. What we don't know is, if my sister and I had gone in tense and apprehensive, what would have happened then? I think the likelihood is we would have experienced long and difficult labours, but who can tell?

Totally agree, Hardcheese.

At the end of the day, my main point is I think women are fully aware of potential labour pain. They can't help but be aware of it! It's shoved down their throat at every available opportunity from cradle to grave. However, IMO there is very little balance when taking into account the overall cultural attitude towards childbirth. In fact, I find it utterly depressing.

Even on enlightened forums such as MN it seems that when you try to elevate positivity and a relaxed attitude towards childbirth, it isn't long before people feel the need to bang on about "accepting reality" (which ultimately means the reality if their personal experience) and preparing for every eventuality. You don't say? That's a given. Of course it is!

Positivity does not equal delusion. Just because you want to make positivity your main focus and avoid negative, non-constructive, and unhelpful stories/opinions, it doesn't follow that somehow you are a naive, ill-informed, hippy-dippy, sponge-brained twat who lives in the matrix.

I am 36 weeks pregnant with our 1st DC and all I keep hearing is women and MWs saying "don't worry, you'll be fine". I feel that I need to know exactly what happens and how much it will hurt, otherwise I won't feel adequately prepared. I don't want to hear cheesy lines about "think about the baby at the end of it".

Chineapple, is this your first baby?
My AN group, after they had all had their babies, said the opposite to you, and wished we had been prepared for how bad it was going to be. I don't see how the AN teachers can get it right because there are such widely differing experiences.

My experience of two pregnancies was of constant mild-to-extreme anxiety, about all sorts of things, including the birth though not entirely focused on this. I was, sometimes, especially when exhausted and ratty, keen to find things and people to blame for this and fixated occasionally on people who weren't being very sensitive or supportive about this, that, or the other. I think you are doing the right thing to prepare for birth with a programme that focuses on being in control of your own calm (hypnobirthing) but I think it is possible that you are slightly over sensitive to the cultural "noise" because of your anxiety about controlling your anxiety (analogous to not being able to sleep because you are wound up about not being able to sleep).

People do love to burble on, don't they. Smile, ignore, move on. It won't hurt you. Really, when it comes to it, you will be in your own experience. What Sarah in accounts said will not come back to haunt you.

PS btw I had two very positive births and am very lucky and am very happy to tell anyone who asks that things can go well

TBH, I now feel quite 'zen' about birth after reading the post-birth constipation thread :S I'm freaking out about that instead sweep the shelves of boots for vaseline and suppositories

I could not have prepared more, yet ended up with intervention...some things are unavoidable. However, in many respects I am still positive about that because I know I did all I could. So it does get on my goat when other women imply that preparation all that is needed for a positive birth 'experience'. Things happened that I didn't want, but it is at that point that the epithet about all that matters is a healthy baby becomes true, at that moment, in the thick of it, that is all that matters to you and all that is on your mind.

Contractions are bloody painful, but each one brings your baby closer. Nothing is more amazing!

Yes vezzie, it's my first baby. And again, I am merely highlighting the imbalance. If you think I am being over sensitive because I like the idea of breaking this open a little bit, and exploring the effect of conditioning on women to fully expect and accept agonising births then there is very little I can say to counter that opinion. It's one of those unsinkable rubber duck arguments.

I had a horrible birth experience with my first. I'm not going into details on this thread, as this is a positive thread and I've already given my 2 susequent positive stories . However, even now, I do not think that all that matters is a healthy baby, and I didn't think it at the time either. I prepared for my first birth by going to NCT classes and reading books, which are all focused on doom scenarios and things that might go wrong. NCT was sort of balanced, but gave us the idea we could have real control and challenge protocol in a hospital if we were assertive enough, so we would be offered choices. The reality was far from it. Having seen a medical instrument in advance is no help even when you come face-to-face with them for real!

Perparing for a positive birth and having practical strategies for coping with the intensity of labour was far more useful than any of the other stuff. This is what Hypnobirthing gave me.

I found so many people wanted to tell me about their SIL's episiotomy nightmare when I was heavily pregnant that I lost patience. "That comment wasn't very helpful to me at this time" is quite useful.

Of course they are just trying to find common ground to chat half the time, but sometimes they need reminding to think before they speak.

Hours of agonising pain is not inevitable! Epidurals work for most people, and they're there should you feel to take them. And of course not everyone does have such a painful birth that they need one.

However ... I wish we'd focused on the negative side more actually. At my (private, NCT-style) antenatal classes we focussed almost exclusively on preparing for a birth with as little intervention as possible.

In reality, I was classed as high-risk so didn't get anywhere near the lovely midwife-led centre with birthing pools and balls etc.

Instead I was in a medical room with a midwife who refused to talk to me unless I was on my back. I was hooked up to IV antibiotics and continuous monitoring. I wish we'd explored this side so I could have been more prepared.

Like, for example when five attempts failed at giving me an epidural for the pain, which was like no pain I've ever experienced, I wish I'd known a bit about the other drugs available so I could have perhaps demanded something else! (The G&A made me very high, but I needed a much stronger pain killer).

Also, I was induced, I wish I'd known something about that process ahead of time.

I feel strongly that antenatal classes focusing solely on the positive do women a disservice.
(Although I was really into them when I was pregnant!)

FWIW, the next time I am pregnant I will try to go down the hypno-birthing, intervention free route again, I'm all for it as a concept.

But I will also prepare for a much more medicalised birth too. I will definitely be researching the drugs available for example

My advice would be, ask your midwife if they think you're likely to be classed as high-risk. They could have given me this information from fairly early on in my pregnancy, had I asked. (Just to be clear - that's just personal to my circumstances, it's not the case for everyone that they know early on).

There's not much point in preparing for a water birth (as I did) if they're not actually going to let you anywhere near the pool!

tiny, Not informing you that you are classed as high-risk is seriously incompetent, not to mention patronising, in my view. Every woman should be informed of her risk category so that they are able to prepare as best they can. I know that I am classed as low-risk, and have known from almost my first booking appointment. I am about 30 wks at the moment, and so far (touch wood) this has not changed.

Brilliant you know you're low-risk :)

They did tell me towards the end, when it got near the birth. But they could have told me much earlier, as they would have known from nearly the beginning of my pregnancy. They knew also they they would induce me, not let my labour progress naturally.

This would have been very useful information before I attended the antenatal classes for example, I could have asked the right questions.

Delighted I managed to get away without a CS though, intervention doesn't necessarily end up in a CS, thankfully!

On a positive note, a friend of mine just gave birth to her first child, just two hours from entering the hospital :)

The funny thing was, because I'm 41, I assumed I would automatically be regarded as high-risk. Nice to know that being relatively ancient in maternal terms doesn't automatically mean you will be regarded as such. :)

I was regarded as low risk up until about a week ago...nothing has changed though so not sure why my status has!

NinkyNonker - in your position I would ask why you're considered high-risk and find out what it actually means in practical terms.

What is the risk and are they going to do anything about it? For example will they want to monitor you continuously?

I think the midwife wanted me on my back because she found it easier to monitor me that way. A more experienced / better midwife might not have.
I wish I'd known to ask her position on continuous monitoring / labour positions.

Next time I'll speak to the midwife at the start and ask if they support active birthing positions. If they don't I'll ask for another one straight away!

Is this your first by the way?

ChineapplePunk that's good to know, yes! :)

Heavily medicalised births dont have to be horrible. I am high risk and had an early induction ending in theatre with instruments.

It was great because at the end of it dd and I were fine.

It's a mean to an ends and it dies end. Do not understand all the fuss. Another way to con pg women out of money IMO.

But it's not a competition, pommedechocolat, and I, for one, am not being conned out of any money during pregnancy. I think it's an entirely natural impulse on the part of pregnant women, especially first-timers like me, to have access to information/ and discourse which is neither uselessly frightening on the one hand nor dippily 'it'll all be lovely' on the other.

I for one don't have any desire, or any right, to tell you how to feel about the birth you had - for what it's worth, I think it's great that you had a heavily medicalised birth you didn't experience as awful - but I am personally making a 'fuss' I think is worthwhile because, as a first-timer, it's actually pretty frightening to be getting a choice of only Orgasmic Natural Home Waterbirth or Here Comes the Screaming/Failed Epidural/Forceps/Stirrups/CS.

I envy you that you've had a baby, and have your own experience to compare the discourse against, but I won't have that until I give birth, and I'm sick of trying to negotiate the various narratives of birth I keep being confronted with.

I found labour painful, but not unbearably so.

Remembering that the contractions were temporary, and that there'd be a baby at the end of it, helped. The pain got better at the pushing stage, as concentrating on pushing took my mind off the pain of the contractions IYSWIM.

Being aware that pain relief was available if I decided I needed it helped me stay calm too, as I didn't know in advance whether or not I'd be able to handle painful contractions.

As it turned out, I had paracetemol & codeine when admitted, and then about 2 puffs of gas & air, before the midwife said it was time to start pushing.

I think people who've had bad birth experiences may need to talk about them more.