Partners having the final say over how women give birth?

[hunkermunker]

I had a waterbirth with DS and am planning a homebirth with the next one. SO many times I've heard "Oh, I'd have loved a waterbirth, but DH wasn't keen" or "A homebirth? DP wouldn't let me do that".

I know that it takes two to make a baby, it's their child as well, etc, etc - but if it's you doing the giving birth, why should how they feel matter to the extent that it overrides the way you do?

I only felt safe once I was in the hands of a doctor. When I had midwives 'looking after' me I honestly thought that I, and dd, would die.

Birth options have been discussed in this house but dh has left the ultimate decision to me. He has read and understands my birth plan and what i do and do not want to happen. H e has not expressed any great concerns and I am 100% confident that he will fight my corner if I need him to, just like last time. However because I have a back problem and seem to take ages to progress we decided that hospital will be better for me.

By all means let the men have some input and discuss things with them as their support is nice but the ultimate decission has to be with us as we are the only ones who can actually give birth to our little passengers.

Er... it shouldn't.

Your body, your decision.

Most reasonable men understand that. They may have opinions, but they'll generally try and understand and support the woman they love. When they're doing the birthing, they can have the final say.

dh left to me - I left it to the midwives

that was then though! I think these days I'd want to be upright but not in a pool and not at home.

Well, DH never 'left' any decision to me b/c it was my decision in the first place all along.

I've never heard of any country in the West where a man decides when a woman goes to hospital or what treatment she has.

My gran was a Mayan Indian who gave birth to all her children at home, in a squatting position, w/a midwife in attendance and not a man or child around. Men and children DEFFO not culturally permitted to have a part in the birthing process in her indigenous culture.

I haven't read the whole thread, but wonder if it's a case of "blaming" dp for what was actually one's own decision. I must own up to doing this, especially with particularly mad requests from my family: "Ooh, have a webcam installed so you can see into our living room? - well I'd love to, but I don't think dp would stand for it...."

So tactful, so spineless.

FF, interesting point. I wonder if that sometimes does come into it?

It's just what came into my mind as I read your original post, hunker. I'd be thinking, "Yeah, right, you wanted a homebirth, sure you did, chinny reckon.." (haven't had opportunity to use that phrase for far too long, I feel better now)

LOL! Haven't heard that for years!

but surely you discuss these things with your partner?

There are some things that DH wouldn't dare to do, and telling me how to give birth is definitely one of them.

At the end of the day, much as they love us it's our job and we've got to just get on and do it as best we can. It's their job to support us, and that's that.

just to clarify,
i cant imagine any situation in which the partners dont discuss birth options. well, i can, but im talking about partners who care about each other and the child. not the ones who run off as soon as the test is positive.

when i say the dh is legally responsible. what i mean is that if something terrible were to happen, the legal authorities arent going to go to the girl's mom, or neighbour or best mate saying why didnt you take her to appropriate medical care. they will go to the husband. and in a lot of countries, he is the one who would be charged with neglecting duty of care if he allowed his wife/partner to labour on without appropriate care.

my husband simply didnt have a say. i cant remember discussing anything with him. i expected him to be in the same room and to stand and take any vitrol crap i should throw his way. i told him this and he did - i cant remember it being a discussion more of an expectation. i decided what medical care i wanted.

But I think the problem also is if things were to go wrong and the woman had the home birth she wanted and the partner wasn't keen on? I know that it is sooo very unlikely, but if I didn't have the support of my partner it would make me nervous that he would ultimately blame me always. I don't think men shouldn't be allowed an opinion, because as my wonderful (!) DP says 'It's their baby too'. Ideally the partner should be supportive of whatever decision the woman makes, but men are rarely very ideal!

As it is, my DP thinks he should have a say. He's a stubborn old horse and believes that men are devoid of decisions in almost all aspects of pregnancy and childbirth. He thinks it is wrong that men have no say over whether the woman has an abortion(!!). I can't change him, but thinking about it here, now, if we do ever go on to have another, I'd better start harping on about a home birth to him, as the more I go on the more he digs his heels in about things. Will get kindly midwife round if/when the time comes to explain that I might not make it to a hospital this time round following a 5 hr labour for my first etc etc. When you have a difficult man you have to plot these things!

Just picking up on something that was said further down this thread - during my second labour there were difficulties and i was being prepped for an emergency c-section in the op. theatre. I was screaming partly due to the pain/fear but mainly because the anaesthetic consultant refused to believe me when I told her I could still feel everything (I had an epidural in ready for the operation).
She told me I was 'irrational' and that she would only discuss things with dh from then on.
She asked him if he wanted me to have the general anaesthetic that I was screaming for - he said 'NO' (I have still no forgiven him) - he asked her to try re-siting the epidural (at least he belived I was in pain)
She then found that the epidural catheter had fallen out, so I the anaesthetic hadn't been put into my back - she still did not apologise for a) not believing that I was still in pain and b) calling me irrational and refusing to talk to me.

I have flashbacks to that time (it took almost an hour from reaching the theatre to the discovery that the epidural was out), and I am so so angry that I was so helpless and that someone (even dh) was making decisions for me. Have had lots of therapy though.

So..yes it happens..women are considered to be 'minors' and unable to make decisions during labour...so make sure you have someone, anyone, supportive and agreeing with you by your side.

bluebear did you make an official complaint about that?

Only if we complain loudly about it, will this abuse of women in labour stop.

Caligula - nope - was too low with pnd to do anything constructive for quite a while. Dd was born almost 2 years ago and I have recently been thinking about contacting the hospital. I understand how Aloha feels about her midwives, I hope the female(!) consultant will join them in their slow lingering death.

If you cc anything to an organisation like AIMS, the hospital might take more notice.

Bluebear and

Well when I decided for a home birth for my second I think DH was at first apprehensive but once he had looked into it, spoken to the midwife was very supportive and helped with the preparations etc. During the birth he was great too. Although I think my confidence from being in charge of it all (enabled by the midwife) helped.

Stitch: again, in this country, there is no obligation for a woman to labour in the presence of medical professionals or midwives. If a woman chooses to give birth unattended, that too is her right. What her partner can be charged with, and fined for, is intentionally attending the birth alone. That is, if the labour is fast and he assists at the birth because the midwife can't get there fast enough - that's fine. If he deliberately intends to take the place of the midwife - that's illegal. Presumably, he can go and sit in the garden or something.

Not sure what the legal position would be if he locked his wife in the spare room and refused to take her to hospital...

Bluebear: that's an appalling story. That consultant deserves to have nasty things done to her entrails for the rest of a firey eternity... It was me that said that one does not have the legal status of a minor during labour - but that obviously does not stop one being treated like a child...

Bluebear, what I find hard to get over is the sheer contempt and distain I experienced. The feeling that my pain was just an annoying inconvenience to them. I would have got more sympathy and care from a bunch of strangers on the number 12 bus, frankly.
My consultant and the whole medical team were fantastic though. Treated me like a human being. What a huge difference.
I would go a long way to avoid having a midwife anywhere near me if I ever had another child.
Dh was totally supportive of my choices, I have to say, I would have been very shocked to find myself married to someone who wouldn't be.

i just want to say that in the three babies ive had, and the loads of antenatal care, i think midwives are wonderful, supportive and caring.
when ds1 was born i spent almost a month in the maternity ward. ante and post natal.
only one horrible midwife in three kids..

I agree with what you are saying hunkermunker as when we carry the baby we should have the choice of how we give birth to baby BUT tbh if dh was not 100% behind my idea of my birth then I would reconsider. I would only want to give birth knowing dh was able to give me 100% support. I know he would try and support me as best he could but as it is his child as well as mine I wouldn't want to put myself in a position where dh would panic and feel out of control (I think he would feel this at a home birth). But dh & I have virtually identical ideas on births that I don't think we would ever have a conflict(touch wood )