Suicide attempts and mental health issues

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A Dad, not a Mum here.

I have full time custody of my 14 year old daughter. She has been struggling with her mental health for some time now, with incidents of self harm, and sadly this week another attempt at taking an overdose which ended up at A&E, and fortunately failed.

I have been desperately trying to get support for her - through her school, also through Children's Services , but all that has happened so far is lots of forms being filled in, and her being placed on waiting lists for help, but no actual help. This has been going on for over a year now.

She is a bright child, but has missed lots of school because of her mental health problems, and she has her GCSEs next year. As things stand, I'd be surprised if she gets to take them, without some proper support being put in place.

Reading around about CAMHS, who we have yet to see, makes me feel quite discouraged - few people have anything good to say about them, and the waiting lists are enormous. Even after the suicide attempts, there has been no useful contact with them, apart from a brief call, and no advice on how to try and stop something like this happening again.

For those who have been through something similar - what other options are ? Did CAMHS ever help? Or would going private have been a better option in hindsight ? Can any charities help?

We need someone that can actually work with my daughter and help her deal with her specific issues, not just an organisation that hands out generalised advice on good practice to support mental health.

Experiences and thoughts welcome

Have you talked to her about what is wrong in her life?

You've described me at that age. I was being quite relentlessly bullied at school and my parents were at war constantly during a poorly managed divorce.

Any of that ring true? Those are problems you can fix.

I could feel her. She might have had any bad experiences or insecurities. Try talking to her. If she doesn't want to talk about such things to you then get someone who can talk to her. Also, please make an appointment with a therapist. Stay strong!

DataNotLore

Yes, some of that rings true. As far as I am aware, she is not being bullied at school.

But yes, my divorce 10 years ago from her Mum was very messy, and not handled well by any of the authorities involved at the time.

She is very difficult to talk to. I have tried to take lots of opportunities to have a heart to heart with her about what is going on in her head. But she seems like a ball of anger , and has little time for such things. She seems angry at the everyone - me, her Mum, everyone. She sends me away usually, refusing to discuss how she feels, or co-operate in any way. She just spends most of her time alone in her room.

Bette123

She has counselling at school , but it doesn't seem to be enough to stop her self-harming or trying to take overdoses.

She needs more dedicated psychiatric help, I think, but it is question of how to get hold of that, before she messes up her whole school career?

Hi, I'm really sorry you are going through this you have my complete sympathy. My eldest 18 year old daughter has been going through the same since a very young age. We are just back from the doctors now after her getting back from hols last night and self harming and attempting suicide over there.

Cahms weren't good for us but I'd imagine we are in different areas. The only good thing is I think they can get her prescribed medication if she needs it other than beta blockers for anxiety which the docs can prescribe.

The road I'm going down now is private counselling we have had arranged through a charity, what are are you in? (had about four sessions and no help so far), due to her being 18 now she's been prescribed antidepressants and I've got her booked in for an appointment with the surgery psychiatric mental health nurse does your surgery have one and if so can you see if they'd see a child?

How long has your daughter had these issues? How does she sleep? Is she organised/tidy? hyperactive or lacking focus? Could there be anything else going on such as adhd? We are going to get a private diagnosis as I think that my eldest has it and women/girls with undiagnosed adhd are 70% more likely to self harm/attempt suicide, and her other issues all point to this.

Regarding children's services, does she have a specific care manager? Working in social work I can tell you that the parents who shout the loudest and are the most persistent get help the fastest. They are snowed under and paper work and people get forgotten so being a pain in their bum ensures you won't be and they will progress things faster to get you off their case, so calling weekly direct or even more will speed things up.

*what area are you in, that should say

Also just to add, take a bit of worry off yourself and her about school just now. Someone can completely flunk school and still do well by going to college then uni or by getting an apprenticeship and working their way up etc so just focus on getting her stable and the help she needs right now and deal with the most concerning things for you right now.

I'm really sorry that sounds really hard. What is her relationship like with her mum? Does she show any signs of autism or ADHD? Could there be something going on hormonally?
Does she do any extra curricular activities?
How are her friendships outside of school?

Ejismyf

Thanks for the long and detailed reply. Sorry to hear about your daughter's experience too. It must be hard for you to manage.

Could you give a little more info why CAMHS didn't work for you? I'm trying to decide whether it is worth waiting for them , or going private, and user experiences would help make up my mind.

We live in Cambridgeshire. I've noticed a lot of charities are area specific - I haven"t managed to find one yet in this area that offers hands on support.

I can ask her GP practice about psychiatric nursing support. It gets complicated , though, me trying to access support for her, without her explicit consent for me to act on her behalf each time.

She has had issues for a long time, probably dating back until she was 8/9. At that age, she sent her Mum a whole string of vile text messages, saying her Mum was a worthless individual, and that she should just 'die, die, die!' and that she wanted to kill her. These were shown to Children"s Services at the time, but no-one did anything about it, and they just dismissed it as a 'phase'.

She's become more unstable since then. Has huge mood swings , where she can become angry, verbally aggressive and even physically violent. She used to be a neat freak , now her bedroom would be regarded as a hazard to human health - rotting food on plates in her bed, used tampons and pads lying around on the floor mixed in with her clothes, dirty and clean all together... If I try and I come in her room to sort the mess out she screams at me and tells me to get out. I often can't go into her room in the daytime either, because she is off school with mental health problems , and is still there in her room, which she hardly ever leaves. She is angry , seemingly all the time.

We have a Family Worker assigned to us by Children's Services, and she is trying to be helpful, but she seems out of her depth with regard to the mental health aspects , and at the moment doesn't seem to be able to answer any of my questions about what we should do going forward, or how I can effectively manage my daughter's problems.

She is a bright child, but currently doesn't seem to be able to motivate herself to study - she is supposed to be doint GCSE mocks this week, but tried to take an overdose at the weekend , and consequently has avoided most of the exams this way.

She was hyperactive physically when she was about 9, always dancing and doing gynnastics everywhere, but she doesn't do that any more.

14 is a really tough time for girls. I feel for you both. My experience with girls this age has taught me that the “group think” situation in her peer group might very well be fueling this too. Have you thought about pulling her out of that school and starting again maybe next year?

RachelHair

Thanks for replying.

She currently has no relationship with her Mum at all. It's complicated , but essentially last year she got into physical fights with her Mum and siblings - the police were called out several times, and she was arrested as a consequence. Also her Mum tried to put her up for adoption without my knowledge. As you can imagine, she is quite scarred by that experience , and hasn't seem her Mum since.

Her main extra-curricular activity is sport. She does lots of different types of sport, and it seems to help her.

With regard to autism/ADHD, she has some symptoms of these conditions, and not others. She's actually very good socially, and has quite a lot of friends . Her main issue is with her emotional volatility . She gets very angry and upset over the slightest things. For example, if she sees there is one piece of apple pie left in the fridge, and she has mentally earmarked it for herself, if I then go and eat it, she will go ballistic, tell me that I don't look after her and don't care about her, and that I am a bad father by not making sure she has pie when she wants it. Even if I offer to go to the supermarket to get more, she says it is too late now, and the damage is already done... And that is just one thing - she is like this about lots of things. She ruined out holiday last year by constantly stressing thwt everything was going to go wrong , we were going to miss the bus, miss the plane, not have time to eat, not make it through security etc. And it's not merely anxiousness - it manifests as extreme anger against me, for not somehow planning it all better. Even though nothing actually went wrong

Fraaahnces

Thanks for posting

Yes, I've had similar thoughts. Her older siblings seem to choose friends that I was happier with at the time - generally ambitious and well mannered .

This daughter's friends seem quite different to her. Often unambitious , and not wanting to achieve anything in life, but regarded by her as "fun". It may be that some of their values have seeped into her.

I have had thoughts about changing schools. I think she might benefit from repeating a year, because she missed so much school last year , but her current school doesn't seem to want to let her. Anyone know the technicalities of doing something like that? Can I do that if we move schools?

I would see what support agencies there are for teenage trauma in your area as it sounds like she has been through a lot.

Start by reading Brain Energy by Dr. Christopher Palmer. It’s like a miracle pill in a book for mental health. Also the work of Iain Campbell in Edinburgh University.

We started DHs brother who has schizoeffective disorder on a ketogenic diet and he’s a different person. All of his depression and hallucinations are gone after just two months. Then you can start on talk therapy for her.

Mintakan

This sounds like very useful reference . Thank you!

I'll acquire a copy and have a read .I'm glad it helped in your family

RachelHair

Yes, she definitely has been through a lot.

Not sure which agencies you are thinking about - any clues as to who might help?

Mental health services for children and YP are appalling - underfunded, understaffed, long waiting lists etc.

Can you afford to see someone privately? It is really the only way you will get any input. Even a suicide attempt does not trigger an urgent referral on NHS or going up the waiting list.

My DGD saw a private child psychiatrist and it helped enormously. Luckily it was part-funded by her mother's company-sponsored private health insurance. Another GC had anxiety problems and was helped enormously by a private psychologist.

You may have to beg, steal or borrow some dosh in order to move things forward. Disgraceful situation, but that is the reality.

Have your DD try this: https://www.kooth.com/ - it is an online counselling service for teens.
Also: https://teenagehelpline.org.uk/
https://greenhub.org.uk/specialist-help-for-teens/

A google search is worth a try. Online/onphone struff is quite popular with teens.

It is very area dependent so I would start with asking the school if there are only local trauma services for her age group and go from there. Also speak to the SENDCO and see if they can make some adjustments at school, sometimes they have groups at school. Ask to speak to pastoral care at school otherwise. If that doesn't work, try and find your local early help hub and they should be able to signpost you.

I'm so sorry you and your dd are going through this. My now 15 year old son took an overdose when he was 12. Camhs assessed him the next day but said that they couldn't do anything for him as he just burst into tears when they tried to talk to him. They advised us to put all medications in a locked safe and that was it.

It sounds as though there could be attachment issues at play. I’d pay privately for therapy and would work on showing her really consistent boundaries and working on her feeling secure that you won’t put her up for adoption etc

Am sorry to hear what you and your daughter have been going through.
I work for CAHMS and would echo the same sentiments already passed by others and pay privately if you can afford it. The area am based, 3yr waiting list for treatment and unfortunately self harming or a suicide attempt does not bump you up the list. Am one of 6 clinicians in a team that should be staffed by 14.
Some things to consider that might help.

• gp appt for bloods to check her hormones, I think someone already suggested this

-symptoms of trauma are akin to adhd/asd, what you have described to me sounds more along emotional disregulation and a lot of private therapist do offer DBT which is the main treatment. Not saying its not autism or adhd as girls tend to mask their symptoms a lot. Read up on strategies for those diagnosed with eupd/bpd they might help, not saying your daughter has that. -any illicit drug use or alcohol as this can exacerbate mood symptoms

• has social care completed an assessment? Child social workers should be able to provide some trauma work.
• really important to call police if there is any aggression as this can get things moving. The more agencies involved the better.

-if she enjoys sport, that's great focus on that for now.

Good luck and if at any point you feel she's unsafe, A&E, call social services and police. The more services involved and you make contact with, the better to get things moving.

Zipporah83

Many thanks for your reply. It is good to hear it from the horse's mouth , so to speak.

I also appreciate you being honest about the strain CAMHS is under , and that she is likely to more efficiently get help elsewhere. Thanks for being honest about that - it will definitely colour my decision going forward.

I have to say, I also agree with your thinking regarding Eupd/BPD. A missing piece of the puzzle might be that her Mum has BPD, and I experienced many of the same sort of behaviours from her when married, so this was my suspicion about our daughter too. Of course, I intend to get a proper diagnosis, but it is helpful to know I am on the right lines.

I agree that DBT sounds like the right treatment - am I correct in thinking that this isn't generally offered by CAMHS, and they would tend to use CBT for BPD instead?

Social care have done an assessment, but haven't included any specific trauma elements in that - they do agree that she needs mental health support , and so are supporting her application to CAMHS, but if there are additional things they could do with regard to trauma, I suspect they would do that if they were told what to do. What sort of thing did you have in mind?

Youvebeenmuffled

Thanks for the input. Almost certainly there are attachment issues. As a small child, she used to be her Mum's favourite , but as you read above, later her Mum got her arrested by the police and put up for adoption, so obviously that's no longer the case. When the two of them are together , they trigger each other, and it can end up in horrible insults and even physical violence. They have the same unstable emotional behaviour.

We haven't had the same issues wirh violence, and I certainly don't intend to put her up for adoption. But I can't say she trusts me , or believes I am looking after her best interests. She is frequently very negative about me , and says insulting and horrible things to me too. For instance, on one occasion she told me that I was 'an abusive fucker, the most horrible man in the world, and that she hoped she never saw me again for the rest of her life'. She's still living with me, so clearly that didn't work out...

elliejjtiny

Sorry to hear about what happened to your son. We haven't even got to the assessment stage, and my daughter has already had attempted to overdose 3 times now in total.

Likewise, I was just told to try and keep the medication and sharp objects out of her reach. But she is very angry with me today about taking them from her, and is calling me a thief .

Can you afford private therapy? Private DBT sounds like it could be helpful.

Just wanted to say this sounds rough. Keep being consistent and showing you care.