Suicide attempts and mental health issues

[ArchiesCastle]

A Dad, not a Mum here.

I have full time custody of my 14 year old daughter. She has been struggling with her mental health for some time now, with incidents of self harm, and sadly this week another attempt at taking an overdose which ended up at A&E, and fortunately failed.

I have been desperately trying to get support for her - through her school, also through Children's Services , but all that has happened so far is lots of forms being filled in, and her being placed on waiting lists for help, but no actual help. This has been going on for over a year now.

She is a bright child, but has missed lots of school because of her mental health problems, and she has her GCSEs next year. As things stand, I'd be surprised if she gets to take them, without some proper support being put in place.

Reading around about CAMHS, who we have yet to see, makes me feel quite discouraged - few people have anything good to say about them, and the waiting lists are enormous. Even after the suicide attempts, there has been no useful contact with them, apart from a brief call, and no advice on how to try and stop something like this happening again.

For those who have been through something similar - what other options are ? Did CAMHS ever help? Or would going private have been a better option in hindsight ? Can any charities help?

We need someone that can actually work with my daughter and help her deal with her specific issues, not just an organisation that hands out generalised advice on good practice to support mental health.

Experiences and thoughts welcome

www.youngminds.org.uk/
This organisation is a very useful source of help!

Totally agree about calling the police if she is physically aggressive. She might see it as a betrayal at the time, but it will get the agencies moving to help you.

CAMHS discharged my dd. 2 weeks later she refused to go to school. 3 weeks later she severely self harmed. I don’t rate them.

Im paying £750 to see a private pyschiatrist. CAMHS waiting list is 18 months long and then she might see one. She’ll be over 18 by then. What’s the point? We need it sorting now.

Go private. If you can afford it, it just means you'll get help quicker. CAMHS is bloody useless

Mischance

Thanks for the advice. It seems to chime well with other people are saying

Yes, I can probably scrape together the money to get her seen privately.

I am more worried , though that she won't engage. She briefly tried some private therapy last year, and refused to go again after 3 sessions. She seems to have taken an irrational dislike to the therapist , and refused to cooperate with her. I am worried this will happen again.

She doesn't believe that she has a problem - she thinks everyone else has the problem, and that she is the victim. She thinks I am a horrible father to her, and that's why she can't cope with life. She does a lot of projecting of her feelings onto me.

Also, she is entiltled to schooling after 15 days absence ( doesn’t have to be consecutive). Contact your LEA. You may have to fight, but it’s law.

pjani

Thanks for the input. Yes, could probably afford private DBT, but am worried about her willingness to engage. She thinks she's the only normal one, and we're all crazy, and need therapy instead. The fact that her life is falling apart and she is making suicide attempts doesn't seem to persuade her that she's the one that needs help. She thinks that's a normal reaction to being surrounded by horrible abusive people. As an example of 'abuse', she thinks being reminded to do her revision before going out to meet friends is abusive parenting...

ArseInTheCoOpWindow

What kind of schooling ? Catch up? Extra lessons? Might be worth investigating...

Try Therese Langford of https://www.facebook.com/calmmindhypnotherapy - she specialises in working with children.

It’s not uncommon to need to meet a few therapists to find one who ‘gels’ with you.

It might be worth trying to find a list of three, get her to pick her first choice, but potentially be open to trying another? (People with more experience might be able to say if that’s not a good idea, I’m just coming from my own experience of having therapy).

I also wonder about support groups for teenagers with similar problems. Sometimes peer to peer support with those going through similar issues can be incredibly powerful. Anything like that in your area?

And you’ve identified a major strength - sport. I would really try to work with that. You yourself might find yourself joining a gym/parkrun/whatever and frequently seeing if she wants to join. Or paying for swimming for her and a friend. Or whatever.

Also I’ve also seen Non-Violent Resistence (NVR) recommended as an approach for violent teens before, could check that out.

A psychiatrist is a doctor who has specialised in psychiatry ie they have medical training first and foremost.

A lot of counsellors are very well meaning but have had very basic training in counselling skills and are not equipped to deal with a child with a very complex presentation like your daughter.

It may be that your daughter would do better with a two pronged approach where talking therapy is supported by medication. The only professional who can do that is a psychiatrist.

Your daughter is in crisis. Please don't faff around with hypnotherapy or diet. Get her proper professional help.

Reluctance to engage is common particularly with teens or pre-teens. This is why sites like Kooth are good - she can engage or not on the privacy of her phone/laptop.

Hi op, I'm a mental health practitioner and therapist in a CAMHS team. In my area, if a young person takes an overdose and presents at A&E they are seen by the hospital mental health team that day, and if safe for disharge are offered a follow up appointment by the CAMHS crisis team within seven days. Following that, if they are still risky they are offered ongoing support from the crisis team, or referral to the Core CAMHS team or other young people's emotional wellbeing services in the area.
The other route in to CAMHS in my area is either self referral on the website or via the GP. If it is an urgent referral where there is risk of suicide they are offered an urgent initial assessment appointment with CAMHS and following that, if it needs priority allocation, would be allocated to a mental health practitioner in the team within seven days. 'Routine' cases that are accepted to CAMHS are placed on a waiting list which is currently running at two months. I don't recognise at all where the other CAMHS practitioner is saying waiting lists of three years. That is certainly not happening in my area.
We would always see high risk young people as a matter of priority, which your daughter having taken a deliberate overdose, would be classed as.
I would encourage you to pursue a referral to CAMHS and would probably be best to do so via your GP. Inform them of the recent overdose and that you are concerned about managing risk and that she may do it again. Also your family worker should be able to refer in to CAMHS.
If a further overdose happens (and I sincerely hope it doesn't) do take your daughter straight o A&E - that would allow for her to be treated medically for the ovderdose, admitted to a bed if she is not safe to be discharged home, and seen for a mental health assessment.
Re your query about DBT - yes we provide this, I do DBT often with my cases, many of whom are self-harming and risky.
I'm sure you are already doing this, but please lock away all tablets and medications at home, as a precaution.
I hope things improve for your daughter and for you soon, and that you get the help you need.

Goldensparrow

Thanks for you detailed response too

I got the impression from a cursory search on the Internet that CAMHS response to overdose seems very different in different areas. I found reference to similar procedures to what you describe in the London area, but that definitely doesn't seem to happen in the Camrbidgeshire area.

When I took my daughter to A&E on Tuesday after the overdose, the doctors and nurses did a very good job of looking after her physical health. But they told me directly that they weren't responsible for her mental health, and that would be done by another team, who would phone in to the hospital and have a chat with my daughter and I

It turned out that it was actually someone from the First Response Service. They asked me what had been happening, and I described things much as I have on this thread. They took notes, and said they would pass them on to the CAMHS crisis team. They also said that the crisis team would come to my house on Wednesday , and sort out 'everything'. Do an assessment, arrange for therapt for my daughter, everything . It sounded great.

Wednesday came, and no crisis team showed up. Eventually someone called from the crisis team late afternoon, and told me that FRS was completely wrong, and there would be no home visit, and no assesament . Simply because there weren't the resources in the county to do something like that. Basically , they said Sheila was on a waiting list, but they had no idea how long it was, or when she would be seen. So no concrete help at all. I found this very disappointing .

Yes, I have locked away all tablets and sharp objects now, even though my daughter is very angry about it, and is calling me mean and a thirf for taking some of her things.

In theory she is on a waiting list for CAMHS and has been for about a year, when she overdosed for the first time. But she not seen by CAMHS then, and no progress towards seeing her in thqt year. So it does seem much longer wait times in this area than in yours.

Oh lord - it is a total disgrace and makes me want to despair. I am so sorry you are meeting brick walls. And also meeting one of the main problems with the NHS: lack of communication.

After 15 days absence they are supposed to orovide work for home, with a tutor. She would be taught some of her GCSE’s. Not all, but maybe English and Maths. It’s a legal requirement. You have to push for it though, because they keep it quiet. It’s enshrined in law though.

Here’s a brief outline.

https://www.gov.uk/illness-child-education

Sorry that you are going through this.

It doesn't help you, but Children’s Services are so underfunded by central government that support just isn't there. Lack of money, lack if provision, lack of staff. In my area, four out of the five educational psychology posts are vacant, waiting lists are massive.

My advice to you would be to contact your local counsellor and MP. We are made to jump and jump quickly, when complaints come in via these people. It might just help you to access services.

I also think if enough people complain, there might have to be an increase in the support for our children.

My daughter severely self harmed. No follow up or mental health assessment despite being in A and E.

18 months waiting list for CAHMs. I’ve abandoned all hope and am going private.

Yes, LA’s try to do anything to avoid this, including by using ‘illegal’ part time timetables, flexischooling and persuading schools to keep children on roll but ‘off timetable’.
No special school places, no SEN hub places, no support services with any capacity to help - all full. Children as young as four getting a really poor deal.

So distressing.

This sounds very much like attachment issues and trauma playing out.

I feel for you OP. My comments would be really for your daughter, but I suspect you will say that she doesn’t feel she needs any support, she is doing fine thank you (I take this from one of your posts)

First, she is lashing out at you and it sounds like you’re doing a good job of staying calm and pointing out the illogic going on. Also it sounds like you really understand that it would be potentially catastrophic for you to be a second person that, as she sees it, abandons her. That said, I admire your fortitude because it’s bloody hard to be on the receiving end of so much anger and hate and sadness.

Would your DD access help from the counselling service at Childline or Young Minds, do you think? They can be really helpful in seeking to keep her safe. That said, their view is that often young people self harm to cope with their feelings, and it’s better to use that coping mechanism as safely as possible rather than to take it away (because if taken away, what else will the young person do to cope?)

They can also (with her consent) refer what they are told by your DD to school or social services or CAHMS.

I know it’s hard to get anyone to listen to you as a parent once a child is over a certain age, but you’d hope school, GP, social services all knowing what’s going on would get your DD the support she needs and deserves. And yes, if that isn’t forthcoming, in the meantime I’d look to private support. I’ve been in a situation similar to yours and the frustration I felt when my DD just would not accept she needed help was so hard to handle. I really feel for you and I hope you both get support soon.

OP I am sorry to hear of the experiences and response you have experienced in your area. As your daughter is already on the waiting list for CAMHS, have you called them to alert them to the overdose and that things have escalated? In my service that would mean she would be seen sooner.
It's terribly sad to hear how families are struggling to get the services they desperately need, in many areas of the country. I'm sorry for anyone having to deal with these issues.

Watching for a friend. Taking notes.

This is a great charity that runs online DBT courses etc for suicidal people and their families http://bodyandsoulcharity.org/get-support/support-for-teenagers/
Get in touch or follow them on social media etc to get details of their courses

@ArchiesCastle - I live in Aus, so repeating situation could be different here. I do have a friend in the UK who does what is known as Outreach Teaching. She assists high school students who can’t go to school for whatever reason (bullying, disability, discrimination). I imagine that most school districts (or whatever you call them) would be able to refer you to their Outreach Department, but I think you would need to get your DD into a better place with her MH. That probably means private counselling, unfortunately - if a suicide attempt hasn’t prompted immediate action from publicly funded counselling, I don’t know what to say.
Meanwhile, it sounds like you are a lovely, involved, caring Dad. You are probably at your wit’s end too. Perhaps speak to your GP about getting some counselling for yourself also, so that you are as robust and resilient as you can be for your daughter.