8 year old anxiety - don't know where to turn

[alwaysscared]

My 8 year old DS is extremely anxious at the moment. He has been out of school since May and has been having a tutor twice a week. He is on the waiting list for CAHMS and also in the pathway for assessment of ADD and ASD.
His anxiety has massively increased these past few days. He had a panic attack on the park a couple of days ago and has been having them regularly every day, and not sleeping until 1am at night due to anxiety.
What do I do? Where do I turn? I have ring the CAHMS emergency line and they are getting back to me today but have already told me that he will be on the waiting list for a long time.
I suffer with bad mental health myself (so of course I am blaming myself) but am completely out of my depth with this.
He won't leave the house, and even the thought of it sets off a panic attack.
What can I do??

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow can you DM me please?

Of course x

. It is the fear of experiencing a panic attack in public, and losing control that can trigger a panic attack. It's extremely difficult for a child or young person to manage so l feel for both you and your son. once your in the middle of a panic attack it's impossible to use coping mechanisms, they are too over whelming.
I suffered panic attacks in my early 20s, they are horrific and extremely distressing, until you experience one yourself you have no idea. your world becomes much smaller as you avoid the places you fear having an attack.
School must be one of the worst places as no privacy and very little understanding.
I de registered my 13 yr old, l then allowed him to De school, this is really important and why most young people found home schooling in recent pandemic so difficult. I understand it will probably be more difficult as your son is yoynger, l could leave my son at home whist l went out to work and he managed to do school work himself. It allowed my sons anxiety levels to come down, and give him a much needed restbite, he is miles better now, and due to sit exams at a private college later on in year.
I would read up and learn as much as you can, YouTube has lots of info, Panic end is a good site, Not fine in School has thousands of parents and students in same boat. Also a good book on Amazon 're panic attacks called DARE, the author suffered them himself and it is well written for children/ young people.

Changing your thinking patterns is important, to know there is no real danger outside, it's all in your head, to do with your thoughts if you think to yourself " What if l have a panic attack,? " that in itself can trigger the awful sensations.
My experience is the outside world views panic attacks in children quite harshly. They are a massive inconvenience, especially with the school, only adults are allowed to experience them and they are often offered medication to enable them to keep some kind of normal routine.?
I wish you both the best of luck.

@Moonface123
Thanks, yes he has been out of school since May, as school was the main problem then. Now it seems that everyday is a problem.
I am going to have to leave my job unfortunately as I can't do both.
The problem is he just won't engage in anything I suggest to him about reading books to help him, watching videos that could help, breathing techniques, we have tried everything. The only thing that calms his anxiety is his iPad, which is a pain but I just let him have it when he gets bad.

So the GP won't prescribe Phenegan because it isn't licensed for use in children?! But she said try the drowsy piriton!
I know I could just go and get some from the pharmacy but I'm a bit nervous doing that

According to the BNF it is licensed for children. It clearly states the doses. It’s not licensed for babies. Go back to them.

bnfc.nice.org.uk/drug/promethazine-hydrochloride.html

I can recommend the Hey Awesome and Hey Warrior books by Karen Young www.smlworld.co.uk/store/p466/Hey_Awesome_Book.html is where I got them from recently in terms of explaining in a very accessible way how the body's anxiety mechanism works and ways to deal with it (I've got an 8 year old who is increasingly struggling with anxiety). Hey Warrior is particularly nice in explaining the whole anxiety element to a child.

Ok so, it sounds like he has reached his limit. Techniques for a neurotypical child won't work for a neurodiverse child in the most part. What has worked for us is reducing all demands except essentials, like brushing teeth a min of once a day, a bath every 4 or so days, and eating healthy-ish food. So no chores, no pressure to do activities, no pressure to engage with people, no need to wear clothes in the house. Just chilling out and following the childs interests. For one of my daughters this was painting and is now playing minecraft and watching youtubers play minecraft, for my other daughter its drawing, playing with horse toys or playibg minecraft, and for my son its endless kids youtube videos or going to buy a little toy for his collection- a train, dinosaur, or minecraft figurine (minecraft features heavily in my kids special interests!). The anxiety is often triggered by a build up of stresses rather than a specific anxiety inducing event. So there is no one thing to 'fix', just that their little brains and bodies have had enough and cannot cope anymore. I am also autistic and have similar times myself, and its always a warning sign that there is too much going on. After a period of resetting, things get easier, but for us and our household its been a whole mindset shift, away from "this is what we're meant to do as a family" to "this is what works for us as a family and means we have calm happy children".

Does your son have a comfort/ safe food that you could feed him everyday for lunch for example? So that he always has his familiar favourite and doesn't have the anxiety of not knowing whats coming up.

Avoiding "how do you feel" questions has made a huge difference here too. My kids behaviour shows me how they feel, and I put it into words for them- you seem frustrated, you seem tired, you seem worried- and I don't expect them to use their words if they are struggling, speaking is optional.

Drowsy piriton works here as a reset too. I would be wary of anything stronger like Phernegan until you know how he reacts to Piriton tbh- in neurodiverse people, drowsy medicines can have the opposite effect and cause hyperactivity and anxiety. Piriton works for 2 out of my 3 when they need a reset on sleep, but not for my other one.

@DinosaurOfFire thanks for this. This is what we are trying to do at the moment, just let him lead us and no pressure on him. He also loves minecraft and watching endless YouTube videos!
Even with all the stresses taken away he is still super anxious and I'm not sure what to do next.
The favourite food thing, honestly he is so fussy that his diet is pretty limited, and his most favourite food is McDonald's fries, but I can't let him have those everyday can I??
I am guilty of asking him how he feels a lot so I will try and curb that
I think we will try the piriton tonight, although I am a bit nervous to do this!

My dd at that age used to stroke her ‘lovie s’

They were made of fleece/velour. I used to buy her velour trousers and she would sit stroking them when she felt stressed or upset. She still strokes the bloody manly toys now.

But texture used to calm her down. Would that help?

Manly toys?!!😳MANKY toys.

He's not a fan of different textures, part of his sensory stuff.
I feel so alone, my husband obviously has to go to work and I'm just left here alone to deal with it all
I'm feeling like I can't cope at the moment
Writing on here helps

I really suggest hypnosis. The one l used in Sheffield is just lovely. And l think she will do it via zoom.

Just to give you some breathing space to get over this bump, I can dm you her details if you want.

@alwaysscared Yeah McDonald's isn't great every day. But maybe a routine where on Wednesdays and Saturdays for eg he can have them, and maybe those microwave french fries with salt on the days in between? Or his second favourite food if that is doable. I take the view that as long as they are eating, thats the main thing, and keep offering healthy varied options alongside the limited 'safe' foods.

It can take months or sometimes years of calm and low demands for it to have an effect on the child's anxieties, and on their ability to self regulate, especially if the child is very overstimulated and struggling a lot to start with. Mine have never done bedtime easily tbh, and even with my eldest I still spend about 15 mins settling her, stroking her back while she's in her bed.

Good luck with the piriton this evening! I hope it goes well

I'm just not sure he would engage with that at all, I have tried mindfulness and kids meditation but he just won't get on board
He also gets very anxious around new people and I think introducing something like that right now might not work

Phenergan isn't licensed for this use which is why you would have to lie to the pharmacist to get it OTC. It isn't licensed for use with anxiety/help getting to sleep. The only insomnia it is licensed for is for insomnia associated with urticaria and pruritus. They can prescribe off license but are unlikely to here.

Has he always be prone to anxiety? Is it worth checking pandas (often triggered by strep throat) which would explain any sudden changes in personality, although this is more likely to be linked with ocd behaviour

It is probably can't engage rather than won't. In my experience some professionals use won't engage to as an excuse to discharge. When professionals say won't I always correct them, it isn't a choice and DC need help so they can engage.

@DinosaurOfFire he's supposed to be starting a new school in September (it's a school suitable for his issues, his previous one really wasn't!) but how can I even start to think about that when he is in this state? I feel like if will never end and we will live in this cycle forever
Homeschool is a possibility but I'm really not good at it and it would isolate him even more

It’s not quite the same as mindfulness or meditation as she guides the thinking, and there’s a person saying it. She’s really good with children, but l know what you are saying about not engaging. Mine wouldn’t until she became desperate for sleep.

One session and she was asleep much earlier and easier.

If and when he feels up to it, she’s also a counsellor. She works at the university.

The portion syrup might calm him down a bit,

@1jumpforward2back I think I will try piriton tonight, see how we go with that. Yes it's definitely that he can't engage rather than won't, I will be sure to use that if we come across professionals that say he won't engage, thanks
@Turquoisesol I have just looked at PANDAS and I don't think it's that, he has been developing this over a long time and it's just got worse and worse

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow thank you so much for all your help. If you can send the details I might call or email her and see what she thinks. I'm hoping the piriton might calm him

Hi there, we are working through a book called Timid to Tiger with our DS, it's a parent-led CBT programme for this age. You and the therapist work on it (it's supposed to be group work) and then do structured activities for your DC.
My DS is very anxious around going out but we have made small inroads with this programme. We have decided he really needs more regular input than we can provide so we are getting a PA/carer from a care agency to take him out maybe once a week after school/weekends and we will do another day.
If you are off for the summer you might be able to do a structured programme but I would recommend getting some help around it (our therapist is private).

@drspouse thanks for that, I will have a look. Looks like we will need to go private

I would recommend finding a group that does Timid to Tiger as it's been a bit odd doing it one to one.