Car seat help!! Group 0+/1 18kg/25kg or Group 1,2,3

[TDAO]

Car seats are driving me crazy!

I need to buy 3 new car in the next 6ish months 😳

LOs will be going to their grandparents when I'm work from the end of the month and they need car seats. Ideally I would like isofix so there's no risk of it being fitted wrong and rear facing for safety but I know this means it will only be up to 18kg. I don't think this will be too much of an issue for DD as she a little 2 year old but DS is not far off her weight at 8 months old! I'm worried that he might outgrow the seat too early or that they both outgrow them at the same time in a couple of years and then we need to buy new seat for my car, partners car and his parents car all at the same time.

I've looked online at reviews saying the rear facing 25kg seats are a much better option but I'm worried about fitting them without isofix and do the seat belts go across the seat/door so u have to maneuver LO through the seat belt into the seat (2 year old would be a nightmare trying to do this!)

Also really like the 360 rotation seats in the up to 18kg seats not sure if this exists in 25kg seats?

After 18kg are most children ready for a hbb seat?

I have seen a few cheaper seats that say they are isofix rear facing to 18kg and then isofix front facing after this and 2 rotate, are these safe or best avoided? Autobaby everystage isofix, osann one 360 (on smyths toy store), chicco seat4fix (Halfords).

Sorry about all the questions, I'm getting myself in a right muddle. Obviously if money wasn't an object and we didn't need to buy 3 this would be a lot easier!

Yes it can be a bit tricky!

I'll try and go through your Qs one by one.

Isofix for fitting
Will the seat need to be taken in and out by the grandparents when the children aren't in the car? The 18kg spinning/isofix seats tend to be bulky and heavy to put in and out. Not difficult as such but hard work, I hate doing it. Also, isofix isn't a guarantee it won't be fitted wrong, it just makes it less likely. It's still possible to fit an isofix seat wrong.

Children's weights
Without knowing their current weights I can't say, but it does sound like you are probably going to want a 25kg seat for the younger one at some point down the line. Whether you'd be happy with rear facing until 18kg and then forward facing might be an option? It depends what you want to do longer term.

Fitting 25kg rear facing seat without isofix
Fitting a seatbelt fitted seat is usually OK in my experience. The main difficulty/confusing thing about the 25kg rear facing seats is that they use tethers which often go around the rails of the seat in front. It's fitting these tethers initially which can be a hassle, but once they are done you can always leave them in place, as they don't affect using the car if the car seat is taken out. Then it's simply a case of buckling the seatbelt and attaching/tightening the tether straps. If you need to move seats between cars, it can be worth getting a second set of tethers to leave in each car.

Seat belt across door
This is how rear facing seats up to 13kg or 18kg are fitted, rear facing seats up to 25kg have a much lower belt path so it isn't in the way at all. Children can often climb in by themselves.

Rotating seats
These only go up to 18kg/19kg usually as a rotating seat for a bigger child would be unwieldy. But the 25kg rear facing seats have low sides which makes it easy to get children in and out.

HBB at 18kg
It totally depends on how old the child is when they reach this weight. Really if children are anywhere younger than about 4 they tend to be quite immature and not really sit correctly. I have fitted HBBs for 3yos but usually it is very clear they would be safer in a harness. You can have a look at their red book to follow their centile line and estimate the age when they'll reach 18kg, but bear in mind children grow in spurts so it could be up to 6 months earlier than predicted. The other problem is that most car seats are designed to be outgrown by height before the child reaches the weight limit, so that you can't accidentally use it when the child is over-weight which could be dangerous. So I would actually look at when your child is likely to reach 105cm as this is the height most Group 1 car seats are designed to go up to. This may be younger than the age they are predicted to reach 18kg.

Cheaper seats
Often best avoided, especially if they do all stages. If you can look up the results for them on Which? or ADAC then this can be useful, although the problem is often that cheaper/less popular brands don't get tested through these platforms. But I'd always opt for a seat which does less from a more respected brand, than one which seems to promise everything but is from a brand with a less good history or unknown history. Britax and Joie do cheap(er) seats which perform well in 3rd party testing.

Other Qs
Do you need to buy 3 seats or 6? Which child are you looking to buy a seat for and what seats are they currently using now?

@BertieBotts I'm so glad you saw this I've seen your replies on other threads and your so knowledgeable!

So we need 1 seat ASAP as my DD doesn't have a seat for grandparents car, she's the Diddy 2 year old (24lb 2oz) so looking at her red book she will be between 15 - 16kg at 4 years old and for height she will likely be under 105cms at 4 years old. So wondering whether it's worth getting her a isofix isize (18kg) seat as it will hopefully last until she needs a HBB? Open to other options though. In my car she's in the I size joie 360.

DS will need a seat soon for grandparents and my partners cars when he out grows the baby carriers we have (we will lend one to grandparents and my partner will have one in his car until he outgrows them, they are the silvercross simplicity and an old pebble, I've just brought the cybex S sirona with the safety clip for my car). He is 19lb 8oz currently so looking at his red book he will hit 18kg at 4 years (or earlier if he had a growth spurt) and he's tall so will probably be 105cms by 3.5yrs. So I'm thinking for my partners car it's definitely worth buying a 25kg ERF seat for him and probably the same for the grandparents.

We could put the baby in the 18kg seats until he gets a bit bigger as they seem cosier for a little one and the toddler in the 25kg seat until the baby outgrows his sister and then swap them?

I do like the look of the 0+/1/2/3 seats esp as some of them spin but I know they look too good to be true... All stages so don't have to buy again, isofix and relatively cheap but I'm not naive... If it seems to good to be true it most likely is and when it's cars and little ones and safety it's not worth the risk.

My partner keeps going back to the joie stages/everystages but for a bit more money Im thinking we're better off avoiding these. And just be realistic that we will need to buy HBB all round when their older. Are decent HBB cheaper in comparison to these stages... I would look but that would just open up a whole new thing to start stressing about!

Thank you so much for your time and knowledge, it's soo appreciated

Yes decent HBB are defo cheaper - you can go really cheap with HBBs and not compromise safety, it's a bit like infant carriers. And even the expensive ones are only about £150, it's not like this stage which can go into £3-400+ just for one stage of seat!

Generally a harnessed seat and a high backed booster do such a different job that combining them into one seat causes compromises in both. When you see these seats that are all stages AND spin AND erf AND cheap... it's never good. I wouldn't recommend them TBH because personally I would be concerned about their performance. Get the best seat you can afford for the harnessed stage, and go cheaper for the booster stage if you need to. It sometimes even works out cheaper overall. In general I would never recommend a seat that bundles a booster into a harnessed seat, the only situation it's useful is if you have a child that just needs say 6-12 more months in a harness, and it doesn't make sense to buy a whole new harnessed seat for them. Then I'd say get one which is a booster/harness combo, either to 18kg or 25kg, but usually a forward facing one.

The main problem with the Joie belt fitted seats is the belt routing, being in the way and I find the Every Stage a total false economy. It also doesn't have very good safety ratings in any mode. It's very poor forward facing with harness, but it's only average as a rear facing seat and as a booster.

I think you are right it sounds like an 18kg seat would suit your 2yo just fine. Do you want rear facing or forward facing for her? It sounds like rear facing is your preference, but I just thought I'd check! A lot of the rear facing seats don't make the best forward facing seats, so if you're likely to turn her around in the next few months anyway, it might make sense just to go for a better rated forward facing one. For rear facing spin seats, Joie 360 Spin or Britax Dualfix 2R are the cheaper options. If you need cheaper than these then it would be the Joie belted seats (I'd recommend Stages over Every Stage, but you might even be OK with Joie Steadi).

For your younger one you might be able to get away with Joie Stages, as it's taller by height than most other 18kg seats and is a lot cheaper than the 25kg seats. But I would probably go for at least one rear facing 25kg seat for him - the only issue being they start at £160/180. I would look at Britax Max Way, Max Way Plus and Britax Two Way Elite. (I prefer the Max Way ones as they are more up to date, Two Way is quite old fashioned.)

You should have a while left in the infant carriers you have anyway, as they are really roomy ones, and he's not off the scale big :). I would guess probably another 6 months at least. So you should have time to decide and maybe spread the cost a bit. If you are certain you want a 25kg ERF seat, it might be an idea to buy that one first so you can see how you get on with it, because a lot of people absolutely love them and end up wishing they had gone for that instead of a second spin seat in the first place. And if you don't like it, or have cashflow issues later, you can always get 2x Joie Stages later on, but knowing that at least you have at least one option for the main car to take your DS through to booster age in case he gets bigger quicker.

Oh and just for info - you may need to swap the Joie and Cybex at some point in the future, as the Cybex is signoficantly shorter in she shell! But at that point your eldest should be out of it so should be no problem.

Thanks again @BertieBotts this is helping so much after weeks of stressing/procrastinating about seats I feel like I'm getting somewhere.

I definitely want them to both be rear facing until at least 4 ideally. I think that's probably a good idea to buy a 25kg seat first to see if we prefer it to the spin style seats we already have and then in a few months when the little one is nearer outgrowing his infant seats we can decide whether to buy another 25kg seat or an 18kg or spin seat.

I've seen lots of comments about the two way elite but I did think it seemed a bit sparce so I'll have a look at the Max way ones. Is there any others you would recommend looking at around the £200 mark maybe £250. I did see that there's a dorion I think it's called that said it can forward face up to 25kg harnessed which I thought might be useful just incase there was ever any reason we had to or wanted to FF? Although I am struggling to actually find it in stock anywhere so it might not be an option anyway. And the axkid move? I know the other axkid minikid seems to be very highly regarded but I think it will be out of our price range unless you think it is far superior to the other options?

I'm definitely moving away from the stages and all the other combination seats, would much rather them be in decent seats specifically designed for this age and then buy HBBs when theyre ready for them.

Thanks again for all your help :)

One more question in we go for a 18kg rear facing is there a massive difference between the older joie 360 spin and the newer I size version in terms of safety as there is about £100 difference in price?

Yes the Diono has been discontinued.

Axkid Move is good, although personally I feel you get more features for the price with Britax, and you could also look at Britax Multi-tech 3. Max Way Plus seems to be on offer at the moment in a few places which I think is the best one of these four.

The Minikid gets you self tightening tethers, making it easier to swap between cars and a clever harness system that adjusts to the child each time so you never have to move the straps as they grow, it will also creep up and tighten any slack accidentally left in the harness, which can be a good feature if you worry about grandparents getting it wrong. I think some places have the black colour for £285 at the moment as a lockdown offer. Flexible recline system.

Between Axkid Move and Britax Max Way, Maz Way Plus and Multi-Tech these are what you get/don't get:

Axkid Move: Good side protection, 2x recline position (no in between), nice big/supportive headrest, but no easy harness adjust as child grows (you'd have to take the seat out of the car to adjust it).

Britax Max Way: Less side protection, good recline, just a head cushion, easy adjust harness (handle on back)

Max Way Plus: Good side protection, good recline, supportive headrest, easy adjust harness (handle on back)

Multi-Tech 3: Good side protection, supportive headrest, no recline, easy adjust harness (handle on back) - also can be forward facing harnessed to 18kg (belt fit).

Britax seats either need to be on the fit list for the car or have the fitting approved by them or someone trained by them. Axkid say if it fits, it's fine.

On the recline - all 25kg seats need the recline chosen/set when installing, and all are more upright than the Joie i-Spin. So what you're choosing is just the trade off between front seat space and angle for the child really. If the seat has a supportive headrest it can help hold the child's head in place even if they fall asleep if the seat is more upright than perhaps ideal.

The difference between Joie 360 and Joie i-Spin is that the i-Spin has much better side impact protection, the inserts in it are also better (the ones in the original 360 tend to push children so far forwards they are sitting on the buckle) and it has 1x extra recline setting and the handle to spin it is accessible, the orriginal 360 spin the rotate handle is just under the recline one.

You could look at Joie Spin Safe which is like the original but can only rear face, it has the side wings added which make a big difference. That's usually about £250 so in between. Or see if you can find the "GT edition" which is rare in the UK but that has the side wings as well.

@BertieBotts thank you so much!!

I think I've finally made a decision, I'm going to get a max way plus now and see how we get on with it and will then either get another one or a spin seat for DD when we decide what we prefer/what will work better for the future.

I've seen a few comments on here/Facebook of people saying they got the max way plus for £180 but the cheapest I've seen it is £215, don't suppose you know if there is anywhere selling it for £180 at the moment?

You really are amazing helping everyone on here with the minefield that is car seats! I was getting so confused, feel so much more informed and confident in what I want/need now :)

We got the Diono Radian 5 for our grandson last year when he was a baby, it wasn't cheap but really pleased with the quality.
We used it recently for our nephew who is nearly three and a bit of a chunk and realised how much room there is and it will fit him for a long time yet.

You've already had so much excellent advice from BertieBotts and don't need mine as well, I just wanted to say that I have a Max Way Plus and I'm very happy with it, if that helps!

I much prefer it to the Cybex Sirona we had before, actually. In hindsight wish we'd gone straight from infant seat to Max Way Plus. Although for a big/heavy baby, a swivel seat is quite handy.

I also have a Two Way Elite as a spare for travel / grandparents and I like it, very easy to get baby/child in and out of.

Also I've never seen a Max Way Plus under £215, the £180 deal might be for the Max Way (which is the more basic one, without side impact protection)

No, I think when it was listed for £180 it was a mistake and didn't last long. £180 is the normal price for the Max Way like NameChange says :)

£215 is a really good price as it's normally around £280 :)

Thanks all going to order the max way plus this weekend :)

So glad we've finally made a decision and I can stop researching car seats for a few years hopefully lol

Great

One thing I will say is that the Cybex Sirona has two different recline positions so we could have it upright when DS was awake and recline it when he was sleeping, this was useful when he was 6-24 months and sleeping in the car more often. From about 2.5 he dropped his nap and didn't sleep in the car so much. Now he has the Max Way Plus it's in a fixed position, we have fitted it with a small recline so if he falls asleep (only after a day out on the way home if it's a long way!) he is still reasonably comfy, but it's mostly upright.

So if you're going to be swapping car seats around for DC1 and DC2, consider that you might find a 25kg seat better for DC1 for now, whereas DC2 might be better in the 18kg spin seat (assuming it has two recline positions like the Sirona does) although will almost certainly need to move up to the 25kg seat before he turns 4. By that point though DC1 should be old enough for a HBB shouldn't she?

So atm you have two spin seats in your car for both DCs, DC2 is still in the infant seat for DP/GPs cars, and you will buy a 25kg seat for DC1 to use in GP's car... what seat does she have in DP's car atm?

If I were you, when DC2 outgrows the infant seats, I would buy a new 25kg seat for DC1 in your car, and put the Joie Spin that she is using atm in GPs' car to use for DC2. I certainly wouldn't buy a third spin seat. Because by the time DC2 outgrows the spin seats, DC1 will be old enough for HBBs and DC2 can have the two 25kg seats.

Hope that makes sense, my head hurts a little bit

I only have one car and don't use the spare seat much, so it's less complicated!

@NameChange30 my head hurts a bit too lol

So we currently have:
My car: joie I spin and cybex s sirona
My partner has: older joie spin and pebble (infant carrier)
G/parents: don't have any seats and will be looking after both of them so need 2 seats.

Both me and my partner will be dropping the kids off and picking them up on different days and possibly one dropping them am and one picking them up pm and we will sometimes do the nursery run so I don't really think it will work to swap seats between cars so I think we need:

G/parents: seat for DD (& DS when he out grows the infant carrier so not right now but probably in the next 6 months)
Partner: seat for DS when he outgrows the infant carrier.

Like you say we can swap them between the seats though so DD can go into the 25kg seat until DS is bigger. DD is diddy so I'm hoping she'll stay in the 18kg seats we have until she's at least 4 if not older.

Ah i see. So you actually have 3 spin seats already. In that case I would definitely get the Max Way Plus for DD in grandparents' car now. Then, when DS outgrows the infant seats, do the following:

• buy second Max Way Plus (assuming you are happy with it) for DD in your car
• move Joie I-Spin into DP's car for DS
• move old Joie Spin from DP's car to GPs' car for DS
• move original Max Way Plus (the one you're about to buy) from GP's car to DP's car for DD
• then buy a third 25kg seat for DD in GPs' car, depending on how much you are likely to use it, you could buy something cheaper like the Two Way Elite which is perfectly good as a spare/occasional seat.

Also, off topic but a cheeky question for @BertieBotts please if you don't mind
What do you think of the Hifold, the folding HBB? It would be for travelling with a 4.5 year old. He has a Max Way Plus in our car and will stay in it until he outgrows it. But I want something portable for travel, especially as we have DC2 now so will need to take the Two Way Elite for her.

@NameChange30

Also, off topic but a cheeky question for *@BertieBotts* please if you don't mind What do you think of the Hifold, the folding HBB? It would be for travelling with a 4.5 year old. He has a Max Way Plus in our car and will stay in it until he outgrows it. But I want something portable for travel, especially as we have DC2 now so will need to take the Two Way Elite for her.

I don't like it. The original Mifold apparently gives a really poor belt fit because the belt guides are so low, and the Hifold isn't much better. Then when ADAC tested it they found it is basically useless as a high backed booster and you might as well be using a backless one. So... just take Bubble Bum!

If you did want a proper high backed booster, Chicco Fold and Go tests better. Or Britax Adventure is really lightweight (but doesn't fold/come apart) - be warned it's quite flimsy and an airline cracked ours, but I hadn't packed it or anything as hadn't really thought about it at that time. Maxi Cosi Rodi is also lightweight and comes apart into a backless, so you could strap it together to make it a bit more compact for travelling.

Sorry to add another option in OP, but the Joie spin is currently only £50 at Argos if you get it in grey which is a real bargain

Waste of £50 to buy a fourth spin seat when she already has 3 that her youngest child will probably outgrow before he turns 4, meaning she'll have to buy another (25kg) seat if she wants to keep him rear-facing.

@BertieBotts
Thanks so much for your advice on HBBs. I will look at the Chicco Fold & Go and the Maxi Cosi Rodi 👍 He still seems so little for a Bubble Bum!

@Teaandlotusbiscoff I had seen that but that's a whole other thread about argos having products at ridiculous prices but not actually having any in stock anywhere and not available for delivery 🤨

And @NameChange30 is right we have enough spin seats to spread between us now so will buy 25kg seats so we have seats to last for DS.

Just one more question... @NameChange30 we may follow your advice and go for the cheaper TWE in the future for grandparents car, would you advice this over the max way (not plus). We will get max way plus for our cars.

Thanks again all, your all amazing!