I told the school today-didn't get the reaction I'd hoped for

[Ivegotaheadache]

I posted a little while ago about my dd1 (8yo) who was being bullied last school year (thank you for your replies), well I told the headmaster today as it was the first day back, and I'm not really sure what to think to be honest.

He said it would be difficult to speak to the girl as it was done last year, it's much better to keep an eye on the situation and if anything else happens then they will say something to her.

I can sort of see where he's coming from, but I feel that she's just got away with this behaviour and there's nothing to stop it from carrying on- actually I saw something today when I dropped dc's off at school. My dd was talking to her friend, this girl came up and totally ignored my dd and pulled the other girl away.
So it's still there.

Anyway, I just feel that as well as getting away with it, we have to wait for my dd to get upset before something is done. I can't really cope with that and I don't see why that should happen.

And shouldn't the parents be told of this? If it were the other way round, I'd definitely want to know.

Also, he suggested that my dd come and tell him when something happened, rather than me and she shouldn't be encouraged to tell tales, wtf does that mean! I don't call speaking up about bullying type behaviour, telling tales.

He also said he'd have a word with their new teacher and they would do circle time where they talk about excluding people ect. I had to remind him that it seemed to be a lot more than that deliberately targeted at my dd.

I sort of get the feeling that he doesn't want to do anything about it, though of course I could be wrong. But I was going to see him again and voice my concerns tomorrow - or should I wait til after the weekend or not say anything at all?

Not sure what to do, my said dd had a good day. But then thats what she said even when it was happening, so what should I think?

Thanks if you got to the end of it!

"After school you can walk away from bullying."

This is just not true. Bullies don't only lurk in schools and the big bad world is not some cosy place where good always conquers evil. By denying children the opportunity to develop skills to defend themselves at school you are just setting them up for a very tough life indeed.

"Children can learn assertiveness as a life skill."

Absolutely - assertiveness is a critical life skill IMO.

Some strange posts from Anna888 there.

OP, I'd go back to the head and point out to him that despite a 6 wk break, the bully has not forgotten her bullying. It clearly was not random or innocent. No, on the first day back she set out to exclude your daughter.

The bully sounds a nasty little girl and being at the receiving end of her nastiness does not make your daughter a victim type.

I would be SO tempted to follow the bully around before school and loudly harrass them saying things like "are you as nasty and mean as you were last year?, why's that then? Are you really miserable? Do you feel really uncomfortable being YOU? Cos you're spotty/fat (insert as applicable). YOU may feel a freak doing it, but it is belittling her publicly. Draw attention to her flaws. But do not touch her.

I know I would find it very hard to do nothing if somebody bullied my children.

Cuckoo - you would not just be a freak, you would be at serious risk of arrest for harassment of a minor if you did that.

If you are in a job and bullied you have choices, you can change the job or go to a tribunal if you are forced out. If I am in a social situation where I am bullied I can find a different activity, set of friends. If I get bullied on here I can leave and not read it. A child doesn't have this option. If it is extreme and they change schools they still live in the same neighbourhood and may have old classmates passing on opinions.
Children should be protected in childhood and allowed to nurture at their own pace like a plant. You put a plant in a favourable position, water it, remove weeds etc-you don't stick it in stoney soil, hope it rains and let the weeds choke it. Only the strongest survive in those conditions. I hate any society where only the strong survive! Some DCs do it naturally, some need a small amount of help and some need a tremendous amount. Those who need more help shouldn't be made to feel inadequate-given the right conditions they will probably be lovely, well adjusted adults.
I think we have too much assertiveness training and could do with more people listening to the point of view of others.
I wouldn't want to send my DC off to school aged 5 to sink or swim! (This was the boarding school system 50 yrs ago!).If they are a little girl who likes wearing pretty dresses why on earth should they be made to dress in jeans to fit the 'norm'. If a boy hates football he should be able to say so. Everyone is an individual and it should be celebrated-it is horribly depressing if we all have to fit some norm as decreed by the most assertive.

When do children have assertiveness training? I've never known it, in primary anyway.

advice from kidscape
Try not to show that you are upset or angry.
Bullies love to get a reaction - it's 'fun'. If you can keep calm and hide your emotions, they might get bored and leave you alone. As one teenager said to us, 'they can't bully you if you don't care'.

Try to think up funny or clever replies in advance.
Make a joke of it. Replies don't have to be wonderfully brilliant or clever but it helps to have an answer ready. Practice saying them in the mirror at home. Using prepared replies works best if the bully is not too threatening and just needs to be put off. The bully might just decide that you are too clever to pick on.

Sometimes asking the bully to repeat what they said can put them off.
Often bullies are not brave enough to repeat the remark exactly so they tone it down. If they repeat it, you will have made them do something they hadn't planned on and this gives you some control of the situation.

AbbeyA - you are describing cloud cuckoo land. You cannot just walk away or go to tribunals until you find a part of the world where every one treats you the way you would like. Where on earth do you live and how do you support yourself if you think that? Get real.

Another thing you could also consider is visiting your GP (if your DD is suffering any physical effects). Your visit should then be referred to in your letter to the Head (copied in to the Governors). It may give him the impetus to act.

You get another job Anna!
I really don't want to be a part of society that is what you call the 'real world'.
If you had bothered to get beyond the surface of the girl with the strange clothes and hairstyle that so disturbed the 'normal' members of your class you may have found that her parents had died and that she was being brought up by grandparents, she may have been the sole carer for a chronically ill parent, she may have had a fantastic sense of humour etc. It seems to me that no one bothered to get to know her because she was 'different'.
In the Sunday Times before Christmas there was a very moving story of an 11yr old girl. She had no friends at school and was bullied. She was a lovely girl and she was caring for her mother. Neither of them could get out of the house, they were alone all weekend and she was very restricted in the things she could cook. Life was hard and it wasn't her fault -she couldn't have a normal life as experienced by most 11yr old girls. Luckily she was one of the children helped, has gone to secondary school and has friends who appreciate that she is different.
I am very lucky Anna in that I have never been bullied, despite some of the things that might cause it like glasses, brace,shyness, hatred of team games etc. It is not not cloud cuckoo land to want, and expect it, for everyone else.

Message withdrawn

I think the issue is being skewed here by an assumption that children who are bullied display odd, freakish behaviour or excessively timid behaviour or a very poor fashion sense.

This is by no means always the case. In fact, I would say that describes the small minority of cases. There is an unplesant undertone here that the onus to change the situation rests with the bullied child.

I was iterrupted - didn't see cod's post. I generally agree with the fish but think the degree to which anna represents reality is fairly small

And I strongly agree that being bullied at school is far far worse and harder to handle than being bullied as an adult.

(and I was not bullied at school)

My son has been bullied for three years and I am so happy the bully is no longer going to be in his class.

It has been hard to live with for the last 3 years as we feel the school don't take it seriously enough because of how they see me, and my son is not one to be assertive.

cuckoo - as an adult you can't bully children even if they bully your dcs. I mean we're talking EIGHT YEAR OLDS here.

The average 8yr old has no clue about how their behaviour affects others. In fact if you listen to what the bullies are saying to other children they are transparently betraying their own insecurities - "you're fat/ugly/short/thick etc".

They are not evil psychopaths plotting ways to make another child's life a misery. If they don't like someone often that's all there is to it. They just don't like them.

And to an EIGHT YEAR OLD not liking someone means you don't speak to them. You prob tell your other friends not to play with them. You prob won't invite them to your party - and prob wave that in their face unpleasantly.

If you are EIGHT you need help to realise what you are doing upsets other people. You have an EIGHT year old brain and keep forgetting. That is what circle time etc in school is all about.

Just remember BOTH these kids are EIGHT. The victim is young and defenceless. The bully is also young, uncaring and unthinkingly unkind.

IMO a little perspective is needed

Gagarin, thanks for the moral guidance, but I said I would be tempted to do that.

I know it's not the way to behave. BUT, if I were really, really at the end of my tether and my dc was miserable and the school wasn't listening or helping, then I would prioritise my child's welfare and happiness above proper adult behaviour, and another child's insecuritites. My own child's wellbeing would have to come first.

It wasn't just you that got to me cuckoo !

So many people on this thread either harsh about the bullies - who are jsut children. Horrid ones I'm sure - but just kids after all.

Or harsh about the victims! Very odd.

I worked for a carers charity for a long time and young carers are very likely to be bullied. Abbie and any other teachers you can get teachers packs to help young carers at youngcarers.net
And gagarin bullies at 8 then become bullies at 10,14, etc. Instead of making excuses for them it needs to be nipped in the bud.
If your child is coming home crying everyday because they have been excluded from playing it is very difficult not to be harsh about the child that is orgnasing that exclusion.

I'm not saying 8 year olds don't know right from wrong.

I'm saying that 8year olds act like children. They don't consider the full affect of their actions. If they don't like someone they don't want to play with them and they don't want their other friends to play with them. They are then mean and unkind and often exclusive esp if they are girls.

If it is explained to them they can understand what their actions are doing to someone else. But they still won't want to play with the other person. They just need to know how to be polite but distant. And becasue they are only 8 this is a skill that needs some learning.

They do not sit at home plotting. They just act with very little judgement.