I told the school today-didn't get the reaction I'd hoped for

[Ivegotaheadache]

I posted a little while ago about my dd1 (8yo) who was being bullied last school year (thank you for your replies), well I told the headmaster today as it was the first day back, and I'm not really sure what to think to be honest.

He said it would be difficult to speak to the girl as it was done last year, it's much better to keep an eye on the situation and if anything else happens then they will say something to her.

I can sort of see where he's coming from, but I feel that she's just got away with this behaviour and there's nothing to stop it from carrying on- actually I saw something today when I dropped dc's off at school. My dd was talking to her friend, this girl came up and totally ignored my dd and pulled the other girl away.
So it's still there.

Anyway, I just feel that as well as getting away with it, we have to wait for my dd to get upset before something is done. I can't really cope with that and I don't see why that should happen.

And shouldn't the parents be told of this? If it were the other way round, I'd definitely want to know.

Also, he suggested that my dd come and tell him when something happened, rather than me and she shouldn't be encouraged to tell tales, wtf does that mean! I don't call speaking up about bullying type behaviour, telling tales.

He also said he'd have a word with their new teacher and they would do circle time where they talk about excluding people ect. I had to remind him that it seemed to be a lot more than that deliberately targeted at my dd.

I sort of get the feeling that he doesn't want to do anything about it, though of course I could be wrong. But I was going to see him again and voice my concerns tomorrow - or should I wait til after the weekend or not say anything at all?

Not sure what to do, my said dd had a good day. But then thats what she said even when it was happening, so what should I think?

Thanks if you got to the end of it!

SuperSillyus - I do think, sadly, that many victims of bullies have "learned helplessness" (sometimes called a "victim mentality") acquired in their families. Parents who have controlling behaviour towards their children and require a lot of compliance/obedience and fear any type of conflict can be the sort of parents who set their children up (totally unwittingly) to be the victims of bullies. Those same parents will typically ask a school/headteacher/authorities to exert a control over bullies similar to the control they exert over their own children at home.

The best thing we can do for our children is let them out into the world at a young age and learn to "fight their own battles" as soon as possible.

It doesn't work just like that, all sorts of children can be bullied and some of them are very self confident and have something about them that makes the bully jealous.

Anna yes my mother was controlling and I felt she broke my will at a young age. I think she felt children need to know they are not the boss to feel secure (which I agree with) and she now feels that my children are spoilt, that I'm too soft.

But actually I am trying to control my children because I'm their mother and I have to and sometimes I get cross with them because I'm human and have to force my will over theirs.
So far my 17 year old has not had a problem with bullies...I have three smaller children with all this ahead of them still.

Building self confidence in children is a key task of parenting isn't it.

But also, I was brought up not to swear and to be nice. So I didn't have the tools to handle tougher kids. But I certainly don't want to teach my children to swear but it can be a social skill to be able to say 'fuck off' sometimes.

I agree, bullying can arise in all sorts of situations - and in later life, work etc.

We all need to learn to deal with bullying, not just expect "someone in authority" to deal with the bully for us.

SuperSillyus - I quite agree that it can be a very useful social skill to tell someone to fuck off (or even just to be able to say it to them in one's own head).

Starlight - I think I need to elaborate the concept of "controlling behaviour".

Controlling behaviour is not about ensuring a child's safety is not compromised.

Controlling behaviour is about exerting emotional blackmail over a person in order to get them to behave in a way that suits your own particular needs.

Is that clear?

It is a very difficult problem.Self confidence is very important, it isn't so much what you say as body language.
Bullies pick up very subtle signals without being aware of what they are doing.
Often with girls, the ones to get bullied are those that have the self confidence to be themselves. They refuse to fit the general mould and suffer the consequences and yet others can be themselves and are respected for it!
Some children need help, they can't cope alone. I think that help has to come through the proper channels. Going direct to the other parents only works if they are shocked and want to help. You hit a brick wall if they don't accept that their 'little darling' could bully.

There was a girl in my elder DSS's class at primary school who suffered badly from bullying.

I would always stamp on any kind of bad mouthing of this child by either of my DSSs (who were at the same school at the time).

However, when I finally saw this child at school, the only thought to cross my mind was "What on earth are her parents doing?". She was totally set up to be one of life's victims - appalling clothes, haircut etc quite unlike anything any other child in that school had.

Actually, come to think of it, there was a child like this in my class at secondary school. She was actually put up a year into our class to help her "escape the bullies" in the class below (her year group). It didn't make a jot of difference - she was a total pain, and despite her parents having endless meetings with teachers, headteacher, other parents etc, there was very little parental sympathy (among highly educated professionals with extremely senior government jobs).

Riven - sadly, it can be the "victim's fault".

It's never victims' fault riven, but they are bullied because they are different. The child might have it within their power, with support, to modify their difference in order to fit in. Am thinking of children, like me, who were bullied for talking posh and liking books. So you shut up and sit at the back of the class and quietly hate your school, especially the head who colludes in it all . So yes, I could do something to help myself.
Other children at my school who were bullied while the head turned a blind eye were children with learning disabilities, children from single parent families etc . One girl was bullied because she was singularly beautiful . The bully gangs were run by the three children of a staff member. Nice. This was the 1960s/70s, before we had Kidscape and anti-bullying policies.
I think ivegotaheadache needs to get the head to give her the school anti-bullying policy without delay. Invoke your daughter's current involvement with CAMHS if you have to.
My mum solved my problem back in 1970...by backing the ringleader into a corner and hissing at her that if she ever spoke to me again, or went near me in the playground, mum would break every bone in her body. I really don't recommend this solution, but as a bullied child I really feel for you and your dd.

But surely if you are looking to absolve bullies from their basic human responsibility to learn to accept and respect differences Anna, then you should blame the parents of these insufficiently socially acceptable children.

I don't accept that it is the 'victims' fault.
You can see why it happens sometimes but, if they are not hurting others, I don't see why they should change their behaviour.
The one person who should change is the bully.
If you don't like someone's clothes or hairstyle you have absolutely no right to bully them because of it! Life would be boring in the extereme if we all fitted a general pattern of style and behaviour. Everyone has the perfect right to be odd, unless it hurts someone else.

Marina - I'm not looking to absolve bullies from their responsibilties. I'm trying to demonstrate that "victims" may have a responsibility in their treatment by bullies.

AbbeyA - I'm only using weird clothes/haircut as an indication that the parents were not bringing their child up to fit in with social norms.

It is important to teach children that they must adhere to a certain version of social normality. And odd behaviour can be very disturbing and harmful to a group (that was true of the girl in our class at school - she disturbed us all with her peculiar behaviour).

Victims don't have a responsibility in their treatment of bullies. They have the right to be themselves without hinderance, as long as it doesn't hurt others. It is not acceptable to say 'that child looks a wimp-lets make their life a misery'.

Are you saying that anyone with peculiar behaviour should be hidden away? Why can't she just be accepted as a person with peculiar behaviour?

If you don't adhere to social norms to the extent that you do not know/follow the accepted social codes, at best you will be excluded from the group and at worst you will be bullied.

That is an important life lesson that needs to be learned early. We cannot all be different all the time to function in society.

I am absolutely not saying they should be "hidden away". I am saying that people should learn socially acceptable behaviour. Parents need to teach children what that behaviour is.

Definitely write to the Head about it.

And why not copy it in to the Governors??????? Perhaps her mum and dad might then get a wake up call as to how their daughter is behaving! I can imagine the mother/ Governor will feel very embarrassed having to deal with the matter with her Governor's hat on. Perhaps that might sort the matter out once and for all!

P.S. My hairdresser once told me about how his daughter was being (badly) bullied at school. Apparently, he paid some of his neighbour's kids (who like to wear hoodies, stare and give out a bit of attitude) £100 to pick her up from school for a week. He said it sorted it VERY quickly. The other kids looked absolutely aghast!

Starlight - I am not saying it always is the "victim's fault".

What I really think, I suppose, is that parents need to think long and hard about why their child might be the victim of bullying and how they can help their child counteract that bullying effectively, rather than running to "authority" to stamp down on the bully.

Both my children have been bullied. I am thrilled to learn from Anna888 that it is their own fault. And I have helped.