I told the school today-didn't get the reaction I'd hoped for

[Ivegotaheadache]

I posted a little while ago about my dd1 (8yo) who was being bullied last school year (thank you for your replies), well I told the headmaster today as it was the first day back, and I'm not really sure what to think to be honest.

He said it would be difficult to speak to the girl as it was done last year, it's much better to keep an eye on the situation and if anything else happens then they will say something to her.

I can sort of see where he's coming from, but I feel that she's just got away with this behaviour and there's nothing to stop it from carrying on- actually I saw something today when I dropped dc's off at school. My dd was talking to her friend, this girl came up and totally ignored my dd and pulled the other girl away.
So it's still there.

Anyway, I just feel that as well as getting away with it, we have to wait for my dd to get upset before something is done. I can't really cope with that and I don't see why that should happen.

And shouldn't the parents be told of this? If it were the other way round, I'd definitely want to know.

Also, he suggested that my dd come and tell him when something happened, rather than me and she shouldn't be encouraged to tell tales, wtf does that mean! I don't call speaking up about bullying type behaviour, telling tales.

He also said he'd have a word with their new teacher and they would do circle time where they talk about excluding people ect. I had to remind him that it seemed to be a lot more than that deliberately targeted at my dd.

I sort of get the feeling that he doesn't want to do anything about it, though of course I could be wrong. But I was going to see him again and voice my concerns tomorrow - or should I wait til after the weekend or not say anything at all?

Not sure what to do, my said dd had a good day. But then thats what she said even when it was happening, so what should I think?

Thanks if you got to the end of it!

Swedes - you do have a very controlling personality though, don't you?

Blimey Anna - that was waaaaay out of order.

Unless it was a "joke".

Anna888 I would say I was much more easy-going than most parents in my sons' peergroup.

I am a supply teacher and I teach a lot of classes. The ones that I really enjoy are those that are accepting of every child in the class and are quite protective. Not every child can fit the 'norms' even if they want to.
Horrible classes usually have the same feature-they are ruled by a group who 'decide' what the norms are and they are intolerant and horrible to those who fall outside it for any reason.

Swedes - so you acknowledge that you parent differently to the norms?

Not trying to get at you in any way btw - I just think, from my own experience at school and at work, that "victims" of bullying have different/outlying expectations of their peer group's behaviour.

AbbeyA - I'm sure it's very cosy and easy for the teacher in the classes you describe. But it is hardly setting the weaker members of the group up for the real world.

Describing the bullied as weaker members is misguided. Both my sons are extremely sporty, very tall, intelligent and reasonably good looking.

I'm sure your sons have all the talents and genetic attributes you describe and more, Swedes.

The ones you describe do not, however, set children up to defend themselves particularly.

Well when I was bullied I didn't know how to stop it, I felt helpless.
Yes the best outcome would be for me to suddenly get toigher, but I couldn't, that took time.

Children need help with bullying. This problem can lead to suicide in the extreme cases.

or tougher even

Anna - I agree with you that children who are bullied need to learn skills to deal with bullying behaviour, such as effective body language etc. However the bullying behaviour is the behaviour that needs to be tackled and changed - not the victim's.

SuperS - Quite. My normally chatty and effervescent 12 year old was totally floored by a couple of bullies in his form last year. He is fine now thank goodness. It is really very unhelpful to suggest they retaliate by telling them to fuck-off etc. The truth is the two bullies concerned are struggling academically and they are venting their frustrations on the safer members of the form group. ie the boys who are kind and pleasant and therefore unlikely to retaliate. They are such horrible insignificant little shits that's it's impossible in a way to see how they can have such power but it's debilitating for nice people to be constantly chipped away at and baited. especially when you have just joined a new much larger school.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, and Anna doesn't seemt o be suggesting that the bully isn't dealt with. In fact she says she had no truck with disparaging comments from her stepsons.

Cornsilk - I don't see why my nice-natured, kind and amusing children should have to adopt a new persona to fend off unwanted abuse.

This thread seems to being going a wee bit sideways at the moment. To return to the OP...

I am a teacher with a pastoral role in my school, so I have seen quite a lot of these situations (and sometimes managed to help). Bullying is horrible, and I think you can trust that the staff do understand its effect on the victim (unless it is a seriously crap school). However, it is often very difficult for the school to act as there is not enough evidence - only a completely incompetent bully will engage in this behaviour when there is a staff member around.

IME no parent of a bully wants to hear the truth about their child... and more often than not when I talk to them it is pretty obvious where their child learnt their domineering behaviour. I have never had the bully's parent(s) say 'oh, how awful. I will speak to him/her right away and make sure this never happens again.' I strongly advise you not to go to them directly, but rather let the school deal with it, as I have seen the parent become a victim alongside their child in a case similar to yours where the mum came to blows with the bully's mum.

Having said that, there are certain ways of making sure your school has to deal with the problem promptly. Do make sure that every contact you have with the school is recorded in writing. So, if you need to talk to the Head about an incident, outline the situation in a letter which you send to him first. This leaves a paper trail that he will have to follow up. Definitely keep a diary of incidents. Log where and when any inappropriate behaviour occurs - that creates a fabulous tool for the school when they are planning their response. I wish more parents would do it. Also keep phoning/writing if you feel there is not enough help being offered. Pester power works in schools too!

Other posters have given great advice on how to help your daughter cope in the meantime. I would really support any efforts to boost her confidence - martial arts classes are a good one, but any outside of school activity in which she can feel confident and skilled can usually help.

Best of luck with all of this. I am sorry I cannot offer any sure fixes. There simply aren't any with bullying.

That's not what I mean. Children can learn assertiveness as a life skill and I think all children should be, as this is necessary at school and at work. Some children are more vulnerable to being bullied (my ds included - I'm going into school on the first day back as he has informed me that a boy has been repeatedly kicking him and that several staff have brushed it off and called it an 'accident' whenever he reports it, despite bruising to his legs.) My ds is quirky and unfortunately I know from experience that he will be a target for bullies. I would like him to learn the skills to give bullies the brush off so that he is less emotionally affected. However as I said in my post the behaviour that needs to be changed is the bullies behaviour - not the victim's.

some of these comments are Unbelievable, you can tell it's not your children being persecuted on a daily basis!

Agree with Abbey about building a social circle, maybe you could give your DD a girlie day with some friends once a month, like the cinema or bowling, it might help with building her confidence and make her friendship more appealing to other kids (they are fickle creatures) and they might be more inclined to stick together and stick up for her too.

Trouble with changing to fit in with "the gang" is that the goalposts get moved without warning. Usually by the "uberkids".

So the rest of the social circle of less popular kids have no warning that what they are wearing/watching/talking about is suddenly naff.

And slavishly following trends leaves girls being picked on for being saddo copy cats. They can't win.

And of course there are somethings you can't do anything about. You can't be black if you're white. You can adopt the street slang of the ghetto-stylie kids - but you're still white!

And if you are the only black kid in your class you can't change that. Or glasses. Or accents. Or sporting ability. Or being allowed out late. Or having skiing holdays etc etc.

It's not so easy as "conforming to social norms" suggests.

Agree with Swedes that its often the kinder children who are targetted.

Anna, has the concept of "diversity" completely passed you by

Of course it is cosier and easier for the teacher, Anna, in the classes that I described and more importantly it is cosier and easier for the children.I think it is setting up the weaker members for the real world, it is giving them self worth, self confidence and a feeling of acceptance. It gives them the confidence to be themselves. I firmly believe that gagarin is right, if they try to fit in and copy, the 'gang' leaders are apt to move the goalposts and leave them looking silly.
I see no reason at all why the victim should change, unless they are hurting someone by their behaviour. The bully is the one that needs to change.It is a good idea to try for example martial arts, encouraging new friendships and giving them coping strategies but the bully is the one that needs to made to see that their behaviour is unacceptable. My experience is very like takeitasitcomes, parents do not accept that their child is a bully and therefore I wouldn't approach the parent directly.
School should be a nurturing experience for all. After school you can walk away from bullying.

By after school I mean the adult world.

Quite AbbeyA