Advice on school Fine

[TurtleBeGiddy]

Dear fellow Mumnetters,

I have 3 boys that go to 3 different schools. My eldest goes to a secondary school and the younger ones (Year 4, and Year 1) go to primary.

Morning drops are managed thanks to breakfast clubs. However, the pick-ups are extremely challenging, well maybe not too much but my Year 4 child's school has gone all pedantic on me. Ive been late, twice in 14 days and as a result theyve decided to fine me.

I metup with the headteacher but she was not giving an inch, citing how she pays her office staff by the hour and they have other commitments etc. She instead started to solutionise for me by prescribing my son more afternoon clubs. My child already had enough and I dont feel right to force him into more when he isnt interested. Anyway, bottom line is I am facing a dilemma. My eldest isnt much of an issue as I can probably find a solution but the other two are young. Depending on traffic I can be a maximum of 15 mins late but no more.

Im tempted to complain, but actually I just wanna cry. Simply because I expected better and more empathy and maybe even compassion but no, doesnt look like that's the case. Ive been stigmatised, made to feel like im doing wrong and fined.

I need advice, 1) Has anyone been in this situation with a primary school
2) what did you do?
3) had anyone ever complained and whats the chances of winning?
4) if i complain will I be victimised?

Honestly its been terrible because I dont mean any harm, but i dont know who to seek advice from. I feel ive just been targeted unfairly but I dont wanna damage what I thought was a good parent-school staff relationship.

Thanks in advance.

Responding to this as a teaching assistant. Once a child has to be taken into reception, and a parent is rung, then thats classed as late. You say its only 2 times in 2 weeks, how did it go last year, was it the same then? Or do the school know that this could be an ongoing weekly situation in the future (which seems to be the case)

If i were you I would definitely put your child into afterschool club, that way you are not rushing, not stressing and pick up would be much easier all round.

I understand that your child doesn't always want to go, but hey ho - thats life. Sometimes there are choices that have to be made.

I also understand that it may only be twice a week that u are 'late' but it does cause issues that the teachers/assistants/head have to deal with.

Its mostly teaching assistants who look after the afterschool clubs, they need to be paid. If your child is showing up to the club once or twice a week for a 'free' 15 minutes, other parents are going to think that this is ok too and before we know it, there will be children nipping into club an being picked up every 5 to 10 minutes when that is a safeguarding issue.

Im sorry but afterschool club is your anwser .. I dont see another way out.

How many children are there im the school. What if they were all uncollected once a week?

Ive not chosen to force anything, neither have I found a solution - though I am working on one. I rarely get called. Twice this year. Checking my call log, last year i even got called once in 5 weeks. Just unlucky i miss the 'leeway', though in fairness its not really leeway is it? When parents continue to come, and that playground has atleast a parent in it, then they continue to wait. There really is no fixed time. Im not saying that's right either, but that 'leeway' is surely expected, and expected as part of the job. Its not possible to hand all the children over to their parents all within the space of a minute or two or 5, maybe 10. There's enough parents coming at different times its just that yes, being the parent in the class with a child in another school means I literally miss it by minute(s).

There is a solution op, even if you don’t like it, there is a simple solution, and it’s the only one, you need to use childcare. It’s literally why childcare exists, for someone to care for your child when you are unavailable.

and you are unavailable.

you are also absolutely ‘forcing’ them. The word means making someone do something when it isn’t their choice. It wouldn’t be anyone’s choice to stay behind unpaid fifteen minutes. They don’t have any choice but to do it as their alternative is to push him out, lock the door, and leave him unattended. So, yes, you are forcing them to do unpaid childcare for you.

you have used the words compassion and even put this in the bullying topic. But you aren’t treating the school staff with compassion.

There has to be a cut off. Otherwise ‘just one more minute’ could go on for ever.

Surely the solution is pick your son up on time? Why should people wait around for you? If you can’t be there at pick up move schools so pick up works or put him after school club.

I’m not sure what answers you are seeking. You have option of clubs or wraparound care but are stubbornly refusing to consider them. If you want your children collected on time, to avoid further fines and inconveniencing staff you either find another parent to meet and hold onto your child until you get there, use the available clubs perhaps alternating days as to which child you collect first so neither does five longer days or pay a childminder to do your drop off/pick ups. The reality is if you are persistently late or fail to pick up when staff are due to leave site, they can involve SS as a safeguarding concern. Hopefully a place for either child will come up so you can have both at the same school.

You need to pay for after school club for one of your children and get to the pick ups on time. You can’t be late 1/7th of the time. That’s not fair on the staff. Or your child.

I see @TurtleBeGiddy so in fact you are always late, but it doesn't impact every day as there is (obvs) a bit of a time lag – yes of course all the DC are not out the door exactly at 3.15pm.

In my example of infant and junior, for sure we were not handed our infant DC exactly at 3.25 - it might be a minute or two later, chat with the teacher – then I guess a 3-min walk to juniors – yes we would be there after 3.30 in most cases. But again, DC are straggling out and in practice I always ended up waiting for them rather than the other way round.

But in your case, you are pushing it way beyond a couple of minutes. Tbh it must be very stressful to dash in and get infant DC, get them into the car, hare up the road to school 2, find a parking space and dash in. How much better to use ASC! @LIZS has the answer. Save yourself the stress. If money is an issue, surely as I said it will only be for this year (unless your older DC's school is not walkable?).

ETA I see you mention the lateness issue was raised by you at your appeal – this is not at all the kind of thing an appeal concerns itself with, it's for you to sort out. But it is worth appealing again for a place for the year 4 DC – junior classes are not bound by ICS issues so there may be flex. My DD was in a class of 34 in year 4 IIRC.

I rarely get called. Twice this year.

You have been late twice in a couple of weeks - it is 21st September so basically you have been late every week of this school year? Can you not see that the HT is going to knock this on the head sharpish before it gets to once a week, every week in December?

'leeway' is surely expected, and expected as part of the job
You think "hang around until parents can get around to picking up their kids" is in the job description?

Given your updates I’d say “fine” no pun intended, fine away I will see you in court when you take me for non payment. I honestly can’t see any judge or magistrate enforcing this.

This is what pisses me off when councils put siblings in different schools say tough deal with it and then wipe their hands of any issues with the schools.

The school can not make you pay for afterschool clubs and can get as shitty as they like about you being late, I get they have staff to pay but I guarantee there will be staff around watching other children, at my DDs school even if teachers aren’t around any children late being picked up are sat outside the office door which is open, it’s the same spot they put sick children waiting to be picked up or children being sent to the head. The office is manned by the receptionist for an hour after school finishes then teachers man the phones until about 5pm.

i think you should absolutely just nod and say ok I will think about it and then immediately ignore them. Or say send me the fine and ignore it.

She moved house and there was only a space for one kid in the new school…….she could have left them both in the original school…….the council didn’t send them to different schools, the parent moved house so it’s not the councils fault is it?

Yes because the rent was too high and unaffordable, sorry I couldn't afford to live where I wanted to.

All of these things are sad and frustrating and upsetting and not your fault for you op, yes….BUT…. that doesn’t mean you get to use complete strangers as free childcare against their will!

It’s not the councils fault, it’s not the head teachers fault, it’s not the staff who you expect to look after your kid because your Kate fault though is it? Pay for ASC like everyone rise has to. Imagine if every parent behaved like you? People don’t work for free

No nothing complain about. Make sure you are there for pick up on time EVERYDAY from now on, because you being late should occur no more than a couple of times a year and being more than a few minutes late should be a once or twice in 8 years thing. You have used those up. Organise and pay for after school club or a childminder if you can't make both pick ups.

Totally correct.
You don't set housing prices and school places ... which means ...
Your kids being in different schools is not your fault. IF that means
picking you kid up late is excusable

Then equally

The school staff don't set housing prices and school places ... which means ...
Your kids being in different schools is not their fault. Which means not looking after your child for free at the end of the school day because you can't organise pick up is also excusable.

But at some schools the office staff are not there when school finishes. I am a supply teacher so I often leave at the same time as the children at various schools and it’s not at all uncommon that the office staff have finished.

Similarly, teachers may have meetings straight after school.

I’ve worked in a school nursery where there was a knot of parents who failed to pick their dc up after the morning session. There was a charge for the lunch time and they were trying to avoid this. It got to the point where the lunch staff were over their ratio so the head started to call social services about any children who weren’t picked up.

So you’re actually 25 mins late each day. Gets worse. Can you not speak to the school of the first child and ask to collect 10 mins earlier in an effort to be on time which doesn’t impact you financially as you’re so against paying for your child to be looked after?

understand times are hard, understand things are expensive but life doesn’t typically work in a way where it’s acceptable to inconvenience someone else to make your life easier for free. That inconvenience, staying with your child for 25 minutes comes at a cost.

you’ve said you’re working on a solution - what is it? Or is your solution that a place at the same school will eventually come up and until then, nothing changes you’ll just be late? Seems that’s your solution.

enjoy your weekly calls and ASC charges.

In my experience, schools with a genuine ASC (ie childcare not extracurricular) have a policy that children uncollected after x minutes - usually 10 from end of school time - are taken straight to the ASC. Parents then have to pay the first 30 mins / 1 hour - depending on fee structure - of the ASC cost.

Basically, the message is no, you can’t abuse teacher goodwill for 15/20/25 minutes, you have to pay as everyone else does.

Lots of schools have TAs who finish 15 minutes before home time (as they add little to learning at that point in the day, and it makes the role more attractive to parents). Teachers have hours of work to do after school - meetings, clubs, marking, planning. Expecting them to care for 1 child is unreasonable.

My children’s ASC had an even clearer lateness policy - fail to collect by ending time, and the parent had to pay the hourly rate of the staff member staying with the child.

What makes you think there is ‘leeway’ in our jobs? It is not up to you to assume that. It is up to you to be there on time or to have another arrangement in place. You don’t just get to decide that there should be leeway and they should show you some compassion? What about your compassion for them?
TAs in my school get paid until the time school finishes, which is the time parents are supposed to be there. When it’s their responsibility to dismiss a class, they are already being expected to work for free to dismiss the children and if a parent isn’t there when they are supposed to be, even more of their own time is taken away from them. Even if all they have to do is take the child to the office to sit elsewhere. Teachers are likely to be expected to stay at school beyond 3.00, but often have meetings that start at 3.15 so again, when parent like you take the piss they miss out on the few minutes they had to get a coffee and go to the toilet. It is not difficult to dismiss a class of 30 within 5 minutes if all the parents are on time.

Your school set up with the queuing gives you extra time so you are already fortunate. That you have had to be called for being extra late and you still feel as if you are being hard done by is frankly pathetic. And selfish.

You say you are ‘working’ on a solution, but you aren’t if you are refusing to use the only solution that is actually going to work. You had plenty of time to make different arrangements before now, so why haven’t you? Why didn’t you realise this wasn’t working after the first time you had to be called?

I'm sorry for you op. It's a hard one . I think for the sake of your mental health I'd just sign one of them up for after school . There is no way I could take the stress.
To be fair .
You can't ask the staff to stay on once a week either and they're clearly annoyed with you now so won't be giving you any quarter .