Advice on school Fine

[TurtleBeGiddy]

Dear fellow Mumnetters,

I have 3 boys that go to 3 different schools. My eldest goes to a secondary school and the younger ones (Year 4, and Year 1) go to primary.

Morning drops are managed thanks to breakfast clubs. However, the pick-ups are extremely challenging, well maybe not too much but my Year 4 child's school has gone all pedantic on me. Ive been late, twice in 14 days and as a result theyve decided to fine me.

I metup with the headteacher but she was not giving an inch, citing how she pays her office staff by the hour and they have other commitments etc. She instead started to solutionise for me by prescribing my son more afternoon clubs. My child already had enough and I dont feel right to force him into more when he isnt interested. Anyway, bottom line is I am facing a dilemma. My eldest isnt much of an issue as I can probably find a solution but the other two are young. Depending on traffic I can be a maximum of 15 mins late but no more.

Im tempted to complain, but actually I just wanna cry. Simply because I expected better and more empathy and maybe even compassion but no, doesnt look like that's the case. Ive been stigmatised, made to feel like im doing wrong and fined.

I need advice, 1) Has anyone been in this situation with a primary school
2) what did you do?
3) had anyone ever complained and whats the chances of winning?
4) if i complain will I be victimised?

Honestly its been terrible because I dont mean any harm, but i dont know who to seek advice from. I feel ive just been targeted unfairly but I dont wanna damage what I thought was a good parent-school staff relationship.

Thanks in advance.

Pay for childcare. Thats all you can do. This is your problem to solve, not the schools.

What does the school policy say? It should be easy to find on their website?

Does it say that they will issue warnings first?

If it does and they haven't issued warnings, given that it sounds like an internal fine rather than an LA fine, then the school should have discretion to reduce it or issue it as a warning instead for not following their own processes.

I would contact the LA and ask about their fair access protocol, due to safeguarding risks and inability to collect at the same time they can override normal school admissions even if an appeal has been rejected. If they refuse you can take it to the local government ombudsman. They can't override the admissions process but they can criticise the LA which puts pressure on for them to find solutions.

Alternatively and in the short term, you could ask a childminder if they can collect.

I’m imagining it’s a bill for the after school child care you’ve used……..not a fine as such.

I'm just saying you don't get many chances to make mistakes before it's seen as a lifestyle choice by school. So it's best not make them. School staff do form opinions and they tend to stick. I had a baby and then was in hospital for a week after with pre eclampsia lingering symptoms. I was late twice in the following two weeks by ten minutes. That was all put in writing. Id almost died two weeks before So even when you have had a brush with death there isn't much room for mistakes.

Asking for my child's records was because I was told in every end of year report my child was hitting all expected levels but at all ehcp meetings i was told in writing they was years behind so still needed the ehcp and funding. I wanted to see the results held on file. Years behind or on target and yes i was told i was miltant. Because other parents DO except that their child hits age expected targets at the end of every year but in between those reports they are years behind. No other parent except a militant parent would ever dare question how this can be.

With work it's different. You can stay late or take leave or work through lunch. There is 0 the little wiggle room at school. Work know you as a person you have a relationship with. They know your character first hand. School know you via your child

I'm not saying it's OK To be late and expect some slack. I'm saying the opposite.

Don't stand out.
Don't get shot

There’s is 0 wriggle room in many work places too! School is also someone’s work place. I can’t leave work - who would look after my patients?

If, as you’ve stated, both schools finish at exactly the same time, and you need to drive to the second school (in busy school traffic!) then you must be late EVERY DAY! This isn’t an ‘irregular’ thing is it OP?

I am a teacher and we have parents like you, who rock up daily 10/15/20 minutes late…it’s so frustrating! And very unfair on the children, who feel anxious that they’ve been forgotten.

It sucks that you’re in this situation, I get that it’s not ideal, but YOU need to find a solution!

I had similar, paid a childminder to collect the eldest child and paid for 30 mins. However most days I collected him from the roadside as they walked home! She had him for no more than 15 mins : easy money 🤑

You’ll just have to arrange afterschool clubs for the child in the school that offers them.

Or ask the older child to leave and walk towards you. Once you give a written permission slip, he should be able to do this This is what I did.

You can’t expect free ad hoc babysitting.

The fact that you thought you had a good relationship with them may mean they think you are taking advantage. Plus can you imagine if everybody decided being fifteen minutes late was acceptable,

I think you’re missing the point here OP. You’re focusing on being charged for your Dd to attend after school club when you don’t pick him up on time. Actually, I can almost guarantee that you’re late every single day because you said the children both finish at the same time and the schools are not in walking distance. So I’m guessing they’re at least a 5 minute drive apart. However, you’ve only been charged twice.
The real issue is that one of your children will be sat somewhere waiting for you to collect him. He will feel pretty awful and will not necessarily understand why he’s always the one left at home time. Psychologically, this is very damaging. You need to be fair on your DS and pay for ASC every night if you’re doing both school runs. That way, he knows what’s happening, you can spend time with the youngest and not rush him at home time (I bet you never find the time to speak to his teacher at pick up?).
Time to organise your responsibilities better.

Most schools would not allow this - leaving a 9 year old alone outside a school is a really awful suggestion.

But there is a solution - an after school club however the OP just doesn’t want to pay for it.

Utter nonsense!
A child with an EHCP can be on track academically but way behind in other areas - I’ve had children with ASD who are academically gifted, but still need an EHCP because their SALT milestones are way behind.

Can your eldest get themselves home from secondary or are you in a remote area? I took a train and bus to secondary from Yr 7, as did most kids so that could save you time.

Having worked in a school it's just how it goes, rney cant give preferential treatment when it's clear it's going to be a consistent issue because they have hundreds of parents, they hv to hv zero tolerance.

I have a corporate job. I can't control it if the M5 is shut and I'm late. I cant predict a jacknife happening right in front of me. Sometimes dispite your best efforts shit happens hat you can not control unless both your and your partner can both live within walking distance of work.

i could get a breakfast club to get my child's risk close to zero. Unless I sleep at work or on client site the night before I can't get my risk to zero. So I'd argue your wrong here and work do see that shit happens. Someone jumps I front of the train. Someone's dies on the motorway but I can see that is unique to me because I'm bloody minded. My company must be saints because they tolerate the occasional disaster not of my making.

Surely you are late for one daily if they end at the same time?
Could the year 4 pupil start making their own way home and you catch them up en route?

At year 4 my twins school would let them go by themselves. I did have to write a letter stating that I was responsible for them even if I wasn’t there and the school were not overly keen on it.

it worked fine. Mostly I picked them up (cycled in) but sometimes I was a bit late due to work and they started cycling the route home and met me on the way.

i did give them a Nokia brick to contact me.

An academy is still a state school so cannot “fine” but can charge for ASC if they out child there because you’re late. Although I’d question how enforcable that is.

But regardless of the rights and wrongs of the fine you do need to find a solution as you can’t be late consistently. And the risk increases as the evenings get darker and the weather worse.

So either take up ASC club place even if only for 15 minutes or get your middle child to come outside and wait for you by the gate.

Or is there another parent who will be happy for your ds to walk with them the way they go and you arrange to meet them there?

(As a child of the 70s who walked home with friends in infant school, bit shocked at those suggesting 9 is too young!)

Safeguarding means that two adults will be needed to wait with the child each time.

Funding cuts mean that TAs are now usually only paid until the minute that the school day ends. The teachers have meetings to get to or classrooms to set up for the next day.

The office staff are busy phoning the parents to find out where they are, as well as dealing with parents who've come in to complain that their child's (unnamed) coat or lunch-bag has gone missing.

No one has the time to stand around providing free childcare. A one-off emergency is understandable but yours isn't a situation that couldn't have been foreseen. It's also one that is likely to continue until one of your children finds a school place elsewhere.

If you want afterschool childcare, it's only fair that you should pay for it like everyone else has to.

We appealed a school place under similar circumstances, although we had 3 primary aged kids who were given 3 different schools! The appeals panels basically said it was ridiculous and made one of the schools go over numbers for pan to give us a space. I definitely think you should appeal the youngest school place on this basis and collect evidence from the school about the issues with school collection.

But if the schools finish at the same time then by definition you’ll be late most of the time. You need to arrange a pick up or after school club, it really is that simple.

Might a solution be to collect the Year 1 child 10 minutes early.

I had two at schools in opposite directions from when the youngest was in Y1 and the eldest in Y4. I was never late and one of them often had a tea or an after school club and that made things easier.

When DS was at nursery as a baby 30 years ago. Pick up was 6pm sharp. Late in the first 15 minutes, £5; late in the first 30 minutes £15.

Actually, might it be worth speaking to the local authority, who have been unable to provide places at the same school and ask if they can provide transport to take the Y1 child to the Y4 school, to meet you there. Might chivvy them up over finding a place too.

I do think you're not thinking about the school staff. They won't get paid overtime while sitting around for you to turn up. Or having to look up your details and try and call you. Which will stop them doing their scheduled work - and the same for the teachers or the TAs.
You need to find a solution. They've started fining to prompt you to take action. I'm sure if you get something sorted you could ask them to waive the fine.

So you are upset because you can’t get to the school in time but you expect it to be ok for school staff, who are people just like you with their own commitments (including child care for some of them) to be 15 minutes late for whatever commitments they have; and you are considering complaining because you have been fined appropriately in accordance with the school rules. You are not thinking straight. You have some headaches to solve, but that’s not anyone else’s problem.