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Original poster

11 year old daughter fought at school, police now involved

257 replies

Marcbearpig · 22/02/2024 20:26

Hello,

My daughter was involved in a fight at school wherein she was defending herself from a boy that was hitting her with a stick. She has retaliated and one of her peers has videoed it but obviously doesn't show her being hit with the stick.

We had a meeting with the parents and all involved were very cooperative and my daughter was aware that her actions had consequences and she was suspended from school. She returned and all was well in the world until we received a phone call from the police!!!

They want her to attend an interview, the officer has assured us it won't take long maybe 10 mins but has also stated that we have the right to have a solicitor present.

Is this normal? She's scared out of her mind over this and obviously the need for a solicitor has worried us as parents

OP posts:
peachgreen · 23/02/2024 10:41

GlassCaseOfEmotions · 23/02/2024 08:59

OP I've read the full thread. From what you've said, this isn't self defence on your daughters part.

Working in security, you should know the meaning of self defence. It has to be reasonable force used when there is an immediate threat of/ reasonable belief of harm and the person defending themselves has to attempt to retreat following an initial strike. Force can then be increased if the risk of harm remains/ is heightened. It isn't self defence if the initial perpetrator is moving away/ risk of harm has been eliminated.

If the footage doesn't show the boy with the stick in hand/ dropping it when your daughter reacts (which it would if your daughter was acting in self defence) or she continues to strike without attempting to retreat, then she has committed an assault.

If the boy was, for example, tickling her ear/ hair with the stick and she's then turned round and punched and kicked him, the force she used wasn't reasonable in those circumstances.

If he was hitting her with the stick in an aggressive manner, a punch OR kick would be reasonable in those circumstances. But both wouldn't be necessary to eliminate the threat and either would give her time to retreat.

The footage shared online by the boy or parents, prior to any police investigation, could be argued as hindering the investigation. Your solicitor can advise on this more.

Please do not collate any evidence yourself in the form of witness statements, this can go against your daughter. Provide the police with names of witnesses and let them take statements.

As others have said, a voluntary interview is an interview under caution. The only voluntary part is you get some say in a date and time of attendance. These are normally used when there is evidence of a crime occurring, but not enough evidence to warrant police attending a location to arrest (crime that isn't in the public interest/ no immediate risk of harm). Your daughter can be arrested upon attendance, or if she tries to refuse the interview/ leave the interview without following the correct process.

I work in the criminal justice sector, for reference.

Good luck for Sunday.

I came to say exactly this. Great post.

chiwwy · 23/02/2024 10:48

Marcbearpig · 22/02/2024 21:27

Thats exactly what I did. I sat down with the parents, very diplomatic with no arguing or shouting. My girl took her licks and I thought that would be the end of it. Stuff like this makes it hard to justify going to the police if they follow up pathetic stuff like this and not follow up actual crimes

Did the boy acknowledge he hit OP first? Is that in writing?

I would be asking the school for a copy and taking that to the police and tell they need to pay a visit to the boy.

bigdecisionstomake · 23/02/2024 10:49

Haven't RTFT just the OPs updates but surely the key thing here is the difference between defending yourself and retaliation. If OPs daughter was defending herself then the video would show that. If she had been attacked and then retaliated that is a very different thing unfortunately.

No reason why you can't report the initial attack by the boy though.

3WildOnes · 23/02/2024 10:52

SoupDragon · 23/02/2024 10:08

Was it retaliation or was it the only way she could get away? is it really possible to just walk away from someone who is hitting you with a stick?

Show quote history

Im assuming the boy no longer had the stick when she was hitting and kicking him as otherwise that would be evident in the video? A video of the incident also sounds like it was longer than the couple of seconds it would take to hit or kick someone off you. The OP has been pretty vague but I am assuming if the police are involved then the video shows her repeatedly hitting or kicking him.
Obviously I could be wrong!

NoOrdinaryMorning · 23/02/2024 10:53

Just ignore it. They can’t force her to go if it's voluntary. My child would not be attending

shearwater2 · 23/02/2024 10:54

The test of what is "reasonable in the circumstances" seems pretty high for adult men assaulting or killing women, and much more narrow for women who hit back at male abusers.

So glad to hear you have a solicitor, I don't have much trust in the police or the criminal justice system or schools to achieve the right outcome.

mydamnfootstuckinthedoor · 23/02/2024 10:54

Report the original offence. I wouldn't bother taking a solicitor, that will only cost you money. Police aren't stupid - they have to respond if there's been a complaint, doesn't mean they will actually bring charges, especially after you counter with your own complaint. They will see it as a tit for tat and will just tell the kids off.

TheMadnessOfOfsted · 23/02/2024 10:59

Never speak to the police, whether voluntary or otherwise, without a solicitor!

The job of the police is to gather evidence that may be used for a future prosecution.
The job of the solicitor is to ensure you do not say something that could be incriminating.

wronginalltherightways · 23/02/2024 11:21

So a boy attacked her with a stick, she defended herself, and you meekly accepted the school's decision to suspend or exclude her? And now the police are involved re your daughter?

What consequence did the boy face?

WTF am I reading?

Everythinggreen · 23/02/2024 11:22

This is a big problem with mobile videos now, they catch on them what they want. You see it all over social media, people provoking others then videoing the aftermath to make the other person look bad. Dregs of society!

Did the boy admit hitting her with the stick to the parents or the school and then back track? Have the school got witness accounts backing up your daughter? Is there ant CCTV footage either from the school premises or even the street outside the entrance that could have caught it all?

This is the problem with bullies, they start something and as soon as their target fights back they cry victim. Was the boy suspended or has he got away scot free?

AllstarFacilier · 23/02/2024 11:36

did the school not take statements from other children who would back up that age was attacked with a stick first?

GlassCaseOfEmotions · 23/02/2024 11:42

NoOrdinaryMorning · 23/02/2024 10:53

Just ignore it. They can’t force her to go if it's voluntary. My child would not be attending

Yes, they can. They can turn up any time, at any location and arrest the child if they refuse or fail to attend a voluntary interview.

What a way to traumatise an 11 year old.

justasking111 · 23/02/2024 11:43

NoOrdinaryMorning · 23/02/2024 10:53

Just ignore it. They can’t force her to go if it's voluntary. My child would not be attending

Then you are a foolish parent

justasking111 · 23/02/2024 11:44

TheMadnessOfOfsted · 23/02/2024 10:59

Never speak to the police, whether voluntary or otherwise, without a solicitor!

The job of the police is to gather evidence that may be used for a future prosecution.
The job of the solicitor is to ensure you do not say something that could be incriminating.

Absolutely this. Always a solicitor present.

ElizabethCage · 23/02/2024 11:49

I think you’re being a bit naïve to be honest. There’s video evidence of your daughter attacking a boy, kicking and punching.
Where is the evidence that he assaulted her?
I personally don’t think someone would watch her be attacked and only film when she retaliated.

I reported a 12 year old girl to the police as I didn’t think the punishment of 5 days exclusion was good enough. The police spoke to her and asked if we wanted to press charges. I said no and I hope the police scared her straight so to speak.

babyproblems · 23/02/2024 12:11

Marcbearpig · 22/02/2024 20:40

The options were a 3 day suspension or a complete expulsion

This makes no sense if your daughter was not the perpetrator! Why oh why did you accept that?? It makes her guilty by default and you should’ve disputed the facts then.

CharlotteLightandDark · 23/02/2024 12:14

Well done on sorting the solicitor. Hope it goes well Sunday.

Newchapterbeckons · 23/02/2024 12:35

I think you need to revisit your guidance of acceptable use of self defence with your daughter. Punching and kicking is unlikely to be considered reasonable self defence unless you can visually see the boy holding the stick or treating it as a weapon.

I would put together a time line - and a record of who witnessed the whole event, hand it over to your brief. Ask your dd to explain why she became so violent. Was she afraid? Was she injured by the stick? Was it a group action - and if necessary and advised file a counter claim against the boy.

turbonerd · 23/02/2024 12:38

Well done to your daughter for standing up for herself.
It sometimes bites you on the bum, but nevermind.
We have 6 kids and have taught them to fight back when necessary. Bullies should not Get free reign. We also taught them that if they get caught they’ll likely get the blame but we will support them.
Good luck.

Is it not illegal for the other parents to share this video without you and your daughter’s consent? I’d flag that with the police if I were you.

turbonerd · 23/02/2024 12:42

And who are you posters on here saying an 11 yr old - that’s been attacked with a stick! - should consider what amount of punching and kicking is ‘reasonable’ as retaliation/defense?

wtf am I reading.

GlassCaseOfEmotions · 23/02/2024 12:44

turbonerd · 23/02/2024 12:42

And who are you posters on here saying an 11 yr old - that’s been attacked with a stick! - should consider what amount of punching and kicking is ‘reasonable’ as retaliation/defense?

wtf am I reading.

People who are experienced in this area, which the OP asked for advice on.

justasking111 · 23/02/2024 12:53

I was bullied for months by a girl gang because I was the new girl year 8. I'd walk around the school looking for a loo well away from them because I'd get pushed shoved lose buttons off my blouse, have my hair pulled. I'd be late for a lesson to wait till the coast was clear. I was called in by the deputy head, so they suspected something, she was so kind but I was terrified of the gang.

I just happened to be bloody good at hockey, out on the field we trudged no sign of the PE teacher, the gang surrounded me. Started pushing jeering, something snapped I ran at the ring leader knocking her to the ground and proceeded to sit on her chest and pummel her. She screamed that she had a bad heart I was past caring the red mist being in charge.

I got off her and picked up my hockey stick. The pe teacher who must have seen it walked past me quietly saying well done.

I never heard another word but the gang dissolved and no-one was bullied again

CoffeeMama89 · 23/02/2024 13:51

It was self defence, let her go and tell her side of the story. Nothing will happen

ElizabethCage · 23/02/2024 14:10

CoffeeMama89 · 23/02/2024 13:51

It was self defence, let her go and tell her side of the story. Nothing will happen

Was it though? Where’s the evidence?
The police will wonder why the attack on her wasn’t recorded, does the recording show the boy with a stick or just her attacking him? If the recording is the boy without a st ok and her kicking and punching then it’s not classed as self defence, it’s her assaulting him.

Parkermumma07 · 23/02/2024 14:14

what Injuries does the boy have?

you are being invited in as a VA ( voluntary attendee) it’s voluntary however if you don’t go then they may arrest your daughter, they obviously won’t want to do this as she is 11 and no custody sgt wants an 11 year old in custody.

they will interview her about what happened. I would get a solicitor ( I say this as a police officer) the officer will give your solicitor disclosure ( tell them about what is being investigated and the evidence they have) the solicitor will then advise your daughter on what to say in interview e.g no comment ect
the solicitor is free if you don’t know one as the officer to arrange the duty solicitor for
you.