11 year old daughter fought at school, police now involved

[Marcbearpig]

Hello,

My daughter was involved in a fight at school wherein she was defending herself from a boy that was hitting her with a stick. She has retaliated and one of her peers has videoed it but obviously doesn't show her being hit with the stick.

We had a meeting with the parents and all involved were very cooperative and my daughter was aware that her actions had consequences and she was suspended from school. She returned and all was well in the world until we received a phone call from the police!!!

They want her to attend an interview, the officer has assured us it won't take long maybe 10 mins but has also stated that we have the right to have a solicitor present.

Is this normal? She's scared out of her mind over this and obviously the need for a solicitor has worried us as parents

I can’t believe the amount of people offering advice on here that actually don’t have a clue.

never refuse a voluntary interview, the meaning of voluntary only refers to the date/time of attendance. The actual interview is no different to an interview after being arrested.

legal aid - free for absolutely anyone and everyone at the police station, even the rich.

never ever refuse a solicitor, even if you’re innocent.

as for ops specific dilemma, the police have had a report of a crime and they have a duty to investigate, it’ll never be in the public interest to prosecute an 11 year having a minor fight though so I wouldn’t panic just yet! The footage - I think the police will be very aware of how videos are manipulated to remove continuity so that isn’t going anywhere either.

my ds was interviewed at 12 years old for a fight with another kid at school. Took them 2 years to NFA it though.

I would suggest everyone who doesn’t have a clue about how our criminal justice system works reads the secret barrister, you’ll be thoroughly depressed to learn what goes on in this country, and it could affect any of you, even if you’ve never stepped a toe out of line in your life.

You need to use the "quote" button or we have no idea who you are responding to.

The boy would be in more serious trouble for hitting her with a stick.

It's the nature of my job and the industry I work in...doesn't mean I can't teach my children right from wrong.

I taught her the violence isn't necessary unless she feels like she has no other option.

Ultimately we have secured a solicitor to accompany her on Sunday

Violence isn’t the nature of security, prevention of violence is. You’re showing yourself up for a thug here.

@Marcbearpig oh North Wales police, they have form for this, they'll want her to accept a caution I expect. I know an incident where there was a ruckus the parents of the bully boy knew a high up police officer went to the police, three boys were called into the station two lied, one told the truth, the solicitor advised the boy not to accept the caution, it went to court. The magistrate read the details advised the boy to accept the caution or be found guilty. He also tore the solicitor and the police off a strip.

So a 12 year old terrified boy accepted the caution. Three months later the bully and mother did a flit to Yorkshire and vanished owing money all over the area .

As for the boy he and his parents learnt a lesson always lie to the police

Our local secondary school won't get involved if it's off school grounds. Which is how I saw three boys beating up another boy outside the fence while two girls filmed it I rang 999 gave a description of the incident, the girls who were filming, one had on a distinctive red puffa jacket, the police were there in two minutes. I hope that they did do something about it but I was never contacted as a witness.

OP I've read the full thread. From what you've said, this isn't self defence on your daughters part.

Working in security, you should know the meaning of self defence. It has to be reasonable force used when there is an immediate threat of/ reasonable belief of harm and the person defending themselves has to attempt to retreat following an initial strike. Force can then be increased if the risk of harm remains/ is heightened. It isn't self defence if the initial perpetrator is moving away/ risk of harm has been eliminated.

If the footage doesn't show the boy with the stick in hand/ dropping it when your daughter reacts (which it would if your daughter was acting in self defence) or she continues to strike without attempting to retreat, then she has committed an assault.

If the boy was, for example, tickling her ear/ hair with the stick and she's then turned round and punched and kicked him, the force she used wasn't reasonable in those circumstances.

If he was hitting her with the stick in an aggressive manner, a punch OR kick would be reasonable in those circumstances. But both wouldn't be necessary to eliminate the threat and either would give her time to retreat.

The footage shared online by the boy or parents, prior to any police investigation, could be argued as hindering the investigation. Your solicitor can advise on this more.

Please do not collate any evidence yourself in the form of witness statements, this can go against your daughter. Provide the police with names of witnesses and let them take statements.

As others have said, a voluntary interview is an interview under caution. The only voluntary part is you get some say in a date and time of attendance. These are normally used when there is evidence of a crime occurring, but not enough evidence to warrant police attending a location to arrest (crime that isn't in the public interest/ no immediate risk of harm). Your daughter can be arrested upon attendance, or if she tries to refuse the interview/ leave the interview without following the correct process.

I work in the criminal justice sector, for reference.

Good luck for Sunday.

Good luck with it all. How stressful for her and the rest of the family. x

So, your daughter was defending herself against a ''boy'' who was physically assaulting her and SHE's the one that was suspended?

If the hideous monstrous abuser is like that with girls now, I dread to think what he'll be like in 10 years time.

Daughter, good on you. Don't ever let ''boys'' or ''men'' treat you like filth, defend yourself as much as you can throughout your life.

When I was 15 there was this ''boy'' that repeatedly grabbed by bra strap at the back and let it ping. I pushed him off and ran off at speed. I tried reporting him but the school attitude was ''he's just having a bit of fun''. NOTHING was ever done about him.

One day he did it again and this time I spun around, smacked him in the face and kicked him in the nuts - hard -. He went flying. I was absolutely fuming. Of course in absolutely no time at all I was the one dragged up in front of the head with the abusers ''parents'' and told to apologize to him.

So I said ''Jeremy, I'm really really sorry, I should have whacked you in the face and nuts a lot sooner. If you SEXUALLY ASSAULT me just once more, I promise, you'll get far more injuries than what you've just received''. Then I walked out.

The charge against me was eventually dropped but I didn't care, I wouldn't have that bag of scum treating me as an object.

So, you and your daughter, please fight hard against the ''boy'' and stand proud for defending herself.

Best of luck!

Have you called the police to make counter allegations in the lead up to her assault on him?

Thing is what you have said here is what you have from your dd, which isn't necessarily the whole truth.

And even from what you've said, there's a whole range of possibilities:

He repeatedly hit her hard with the stick and when she pushed him to get him off her, one of his friends filmed it and told her he would use it to get her into trouble. Off camera he laughed and said she didn't even touch him.

to

He walked past and brushed her with something he was carrying and she retaliated kicking and punching him even after he was on the floor with her friends egging her on and filming it.

I think it's far more likely that a friend, and actually more likely one of her friends, has put the footage online, than his parents. Firstly because how did his parents get it, and secondly because kids do that and are far more likely to do it if their friend is on the "winning" side than if they are being attacked, especially by a younger child.

If he didn't have the stick in hand at any point of the footage then I think they would be right to question it.

I would also wonder for the boys parents to go to the police whether their son has been a regular target for bullies. Most parents don't do that, and if he initially been hitting her, and she had witnesses to say that at the school then I'd have thought they'd be very wary of potential repercussions.
Another alternative is that the school felt that you didn't take the nature of the attack seriously enough and have asked the police to give her a bit of a shock.

11yo can cause damage to an older child. I've a friend who works in a primary school and his arm was broken by a 7yo who attacked him, so don't try saying that she's only 11yo so it can't be serious or that he's bigger so it doesn't matter.

I think you need to go in with the possibility that it isn't as innocent as you feel it is, and show the police that you are taking it seriously and not treating it as silly children's messing around and a waste of your time.

There was a recent video going round of a year seven girl at my daughters school attacking a boy (just down the road not on school grounds, although they were in uniform) and it was absolutely vicious.

it’s quite possible that was retaliation too, because you don’t see how it started. But if I was the boys parents I would be taking it further as that girl meant business.

So I’m reluctant to side either way on this one without all sides covered. It’s impossible to say whether this is an over reaction or not.

This just makes me think our age of criminal responsibility is a travesty. As though a child of 11 has the same cognitive and emotional skills and resources as an adult to handle situations of extreme threat and should be subject to the same considerations as an adult in the aftermath. We're just traumatising children for having child-like developmental capacity.

Context is everything. If expulsion has been raised, I very much doubt the op's dd has had an entirely trouble free time at the school since September.

Perhaps there has been a great deal of inappropriate behaviour for a very long time, not necessarily the op's dd, and parents are sick to the teeth of the school doing nothing about it.

somebody may have already said this but please report this sharing of videos to the school and inform the police.

Defending yourself is different to retaliation. Teach her to only you force if she is in immediate danger. Walk away if you can.

And yet many people here are talking about the boy as if he is a psychopathic abuser. Does the same rule apply to him?

Was it retaliation or was it the only way she could get away? is it really possible to just walk away from someone who is hitting you with a stick?

Yes I would report the original assault of her being hit with the stick too. Are there any other kids who might have been filming, or witnesses? Police can then request to see CCTV.

@Marcbearpig As others have said - you need to report the initial attack on your daughter - do this as a matter of urgency to obtain the crime number before you attend the interview.

If you have a solicitor instruct them to ensure the first part of the incident is reported.

Absolutely.

@Marcbearpig you say you’ve seen the video of the incident. Does the video appear to have been cropped (so the initial attack has been cut out) or does it look naturally like it only has your daughters actions on it?

Hope it has become normal.
My DD was knocked unconscious by a recurrent bully. She was sat on a walk and he upped her backwards. School said they were playing. Police wouldn't touch it.
Currently you only have your DDs word that she was hit with a stick. A police investigation will hopefully get to the truth. If she was, there will be witnesses.
Violence in schools should carry a criminal record. End of story.
If she was a victim, the evidence will show that.

Marcbearpig · Yesterday 21:09
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Im a security worker so I'm officially a man of violence but I've always taught my children to walk away and only react if they have no choice. She's reacted and now it seems the system is ganging up on her”

Surely your official role as a security worker is to predict and prevent violence?