11 year old daughter fought at school, police now involved

[Marcbearpig]

Hello,

My daughter was involved in a fight at school wherein she was defending herself from a boy that was hitting her with a stick. She has retaliated and one of her peers has videoed it but obviously doesn't show her being hit with the stick.

We had a meeting with the parents and all involved were very cooperative and my daughter was aware that her actions had consequences and she was suspended from school. She returned and all was well in the world until we received a phone call from the police!!!

They want her to attend an interview, the officer has assured us it won't take long maybe 10 mins but has also stated that we have the right to have a solicitor present.

Is this normal? She's scared out of her mind over this and obviously the need for a solicitor has worried us as parents

What is also extremely worrying is you describe yourself as “officially a man of violence” as a security officer.

OP, is there CCTV footage of the incident, and are there any witnesses willing to speak up?

Are there witnesses who will give a statement that she was attacked first?
Unfortunately the video isn’t going in her favour if it looks like she’s attacking him.

So often on MN we see advice in these situations where a parent isn't happy with the action the school has taken after sucn an incident to report it to the police.

It sounds like perhaps the boy's parents weren't happy that your DD only got a 3 day suspension so have done that maybe. They have seen video evidence of what looks to them like an attack on their son.

At the meeting at school did he actually admit to starting it by hitting her with a stick or has he denied that all along? Or did he admit to something less like prodding her but then she reacted the way she did?

Is it definitely the boy's parents that has put the video on social media or another student? Again I wouldn't go overreacting and reporting them for this of it wasn't them.

Definitely agree to the meeting but ask that a duty solicitor be made available.

She will be able to give her version that she acted in self defence but as others have pointed out any form of self defence has to be reasonable and what may be reasonable to a scared 11 yesr old may not be the same as reasonable to an adult.

I am a bit surprised that you are minimising what she has done eg. it's only an 11 year old how much damage can that cause. I definitely wouldn't be saying that to the police. And also as a security officer you most definitely should not be "officially a man of violence" but indeed the exact opposite.

Whilst you think it is petty, your child has assaulted another child. The parents are fully within their rights to report an assault to the police for their action. Given it was a 3 day suspension, it doesn’t sound like it was self defence from the point of view of the school.

The police will request any additional information from the school which will include any CCTV and any statements other children have written.

These situations end up with a community order, where the individual works with the Police and their associate team over a period of 3-6 months.

The school is very unlikely to have any involvement in the reporting of this to the police, as they will probably believe that they have dealt with the situation. You can ask the school for redacted statements of the situation from all involved which should help confirm your daughters side of the event.

From this point on, please tell your DD to report any incidents to the Pastoral team and/or her tutor. Though nothing may happen initially, but it will allow and trends to be seen.

Hi OP, please do not attend a this meeting/ interview with the police without a lawyer. A Professor of Law told us that at University and I can't see much has changed.
And there is a huge chunk missing here. The school investigated this, they spoke to witnesses and they decided to exclude your daughter. Their investigation found her guilty. Also I am troubled that they offered a choice of permanent or temporary exclusion. That doesn't make sense. It sounds like they said accept the 3 days or we will permanently exclude. Please speak to someone at school again like the Head of Year to make sure you have the detail. The school must tell you what they excluded her for. Ask if they did an investigation?
Lastly, it's very hard for young people when parents say defend yourself. Life isn't clean and tidy like that, and 11 year olds have a huge amount of trouble doing risk assessments which is why they are so bad at crossing roads! I know you were trying to help but telling your child to disregard school policy is only ever going to cause your child trouble.
Best of luck with this, for what it is worth I think you sound like a very supportive parent.

If your daughter was attacked first with a stick, does she have any injuries? I would assume so as this would have been nasty. Did anyone witness the first part of the incident? If it happened on school grounds then I am sure there would be CCTV footage available from the school. Why has this not been looked at, given that you had a meeting at school?

I know fights between children happen, but tbh OP it sounds a bit like you know your daughter was in the wrong, from the way you talk and also don't bother looking for witnesses, CCTV, etc...

If the school has an "anti bullying agenda" as you say, wouldn't they have responded to the boy supposedly attacking her? They're definitely not just going off the video – they would've interviewed witnesses, checked CCTV, etc.

If you reversed the roles, and your daughter was doing that to another classmate (whatever he was doing with the stick), who then started "punching and kicking" and "laying into" your daughter, would you let it go?

It's not clear what the boy actually did. There's a big difference between him beating her up with a big stick vs lightly twacking her with a small twig to annoy her, or something in between...

If there's a size difference (though they're only 11 where some girls may still be bigger than boys), even if he was just poking her or something, I do get her rage... But if the video of her attacking him looks that bad, surely she could have stopped after the first few blows? That would've been enough to deter him/defend herself. What if it's a girl her size next and she goes rage mode on that girl again, causing real injuries?

(And I know it's hard to stop once you're physically in rage mode – which is why I don't suggest telling your kids to defend themselves physically. Walk away, report it and know that Dad has your back and will absolutely fight your corner – as you sound like a really supportive parent.)

It can be really violent between 11yos. Just recently two 11yo school girls had a fight outside school gates and one knocked the other unconscious. It was all filmed apparently on phones.

Sadly the system almost always goes against the child snapping and defending themselves.

If he’d randomly hit her with a stick and she’d turned around and punched/kicked him immediately once in self defence, it’s unlikely her friends would have had time to film it.
Was the stick incident some time prior and she planned to go after him? I say this as someone who was in with a bad crowd at school, the police will be hoping to scare her into not becoming that person that starts fights.
It does seem like overkill but may actually benefit your daughter long term.

I would be tempted to report the original assault if I were you OP. That way they will talk to the boy too.

Don't underestimate the power of two 11yos. One 11yo at one of my DC's secondary schools got knocked unconscious by another 11yo. It does happen.

My child's been in a very similar situation recently that resulted in him being assaulted by a child and an adult. The perpetrators family are convinced the boy was just "sticking up for himself" as my son was bullying him which has been proven to not have been the case.

I will take your side with a pinch of salt as there will be 2 sides to it, our school has a young people's police officer attached to it and yours probably does too so I'd try and get in contact with them and they can go over with you what is likely to happen in interview and some possible outcomes.
The boy that assaulted my son got referred to youth offending to do a course.

I’m sure this is a police tactic to try and highlight seriousness of offending and to try and scare your daughter into not offending again.
I bet she will then be signposted for support or to schemes in local community.
It is a way to stop children reoffending. I’m not saying she has offended at all . But I bet this will be it .
Scare tactic.

There's lots to breakdown here.

If they are putting videos online I'd ask police about this. It may be cyber bullying.

If the film only shows what your DD did it may be hard to prove self defence. Self defence is fighting back as someone attacks you.

If the video shows him standing there whilst she attacks him she can certainly counter report an assault but they could react hers as assault too. A separate incident.

Really until you attend the police station and find out what has been said you can't know. But I would be honest about it all and write the facts down beforehand to remember to say everything.

Did the buy admit attacking DD with the stick in the school meeting?

Firstly you say you have taught her to defend herself because the anti-bullying system at school doesn’t work (so presuming this is retaliation and violence?) and then you say-
‘Im a security worker so I'm officially a man of violence but I've always taught my children to walk away and only react if they have no choice. She's reacted and now it seems the system is ganging up on her’ So which is it?
and it’s pretty awful you describe yourself as a man of violence, doesn’t bode well.

I agree with this

It sounds like he attacked her AND THEN she attacked him in retaliation. That's not self defence

I hope you get this sorted out. Sounds stressful

Report those parents for harassment. Get a solicitor. Report the school and seek legal advice. It shouldn't have to be like that but those parents are retaliating and probably they want money.

It sounds like retaliation rather than self defence, unless the boy is holding the stick in the video. I dare say she will get a warning, they may have to say she can have a solicitor.

I hope she knows she did the right thing. What else could she have done when a lad goes at her with a stick? I would definitely try to get a witness who saw the whole thing and try to press charges the other way.

If the video only shows her kicking and punching, she is not acting in self defence. She may have been retaliating, but this means nothing in the eyes of the law.

I'm inclined to agree, unless the hitting with a stick immediately preceded the girl hitting the boy, and the video has been carefully edited.

What's on the school's CCTV may clarify things.

Definitely get the video taken down, they're bang out of order putting it in the public domain.

Do you have an 11 year old? Take that stance with them and see how far it gets them

So many incidents where a child is bullied, hot, kicked, punched, hit with a stick and the rest of the set up is that phones are ready to film the retaliation and then the victim is blamed.

I'm really surprised you didn't do more to ask questions at the school interview, OP, especially since the boy was older and bigger than your daughter.