Do you think attitudes will ever change?

[tyler80]

From another forum I frequent (not parenting based, very male) but perhaps more indicative of the general mindset?

"Agree with the don?t fixate on breast feeding point, My Missus went mental trying to get it to work, if you can great but most women have some trouble, almost all supplement it with formula, Not all women are Super-lactating, Earth mothers types, and in all honesty bottle fed babies aren?t growth stunted, midget, thickies like the ?Brest is Best? brigade would have you believe, Obviously Dad can share the feeding workload with formula which is actually a massive help, we wound up doing shifts early on and it meant that she actually got some sleep?"

Do you think we can ever get to the point where breastfeeding is considered normal?

Not while there are huge amounts of money to be made by people FF.

There is just too much pressure I think, too much normalisation of cow's milk, our society is too skewed towards viewing breasts as a sexual organ only.

yes, i do, and i think that we are

you'll find opinions like that all over the place, but tbh I could easily google and find the opposite, so I don't think that really proves/disproves anything iyswim?

I think that more and more people are at least starting out breastfeeding, and I like to think that there have been and are being more and more improvements in availability of good support for women.
plus the internet of course is a huge help for those people who are struggling (as logn as they find the right site!)

it's a slow, slow process. but i do think it's changing
when i was breastfeeding ds1 I think I saw ONE other mum bf in public the entire time
I see lots and lots now, so i think the tide is turning but I think it will take a while to get there

There is a massive culture shift that needs to happen - where it's not 'Breast is Best', not even breast feeding, just feeding the baby.

Today I sat outside a cafe in central Bristol and fed my 18 month old. Maybe by doing that I made it a little more normal, I don't know. More likely no-one noticed anyway...

Having just spend the last few days feeding non stop as DS2 had a growth spurt at 9 weeks, I do think that you need to be quite committed to BF to make it work.

At least both BF and FF considered normal, my mum tried to BF me in the 1970s (none of her friends even tried) and BFing then was not normal.

Apparently I screamed (colic?) so she was immediately told my by doctor (her MIL, who was an obsetrician and GP) that my screaming was because she didn't have enough milk and I'd be better on formula. She was also told only to fed strictly on a 4 hourly routine so she is pretty sure she didn't have enough milk from the start. Even in hospitals (and mums kept in for eages then) babies were brought to mums at 4 hourly intervals.

Anyway, she stopped at 6 weeks but did successfully breastfed my younger siblings, she knew to ignore her MIL by then!

Lets celebrate the progress thats been made in a generation!

Yes, my mum bf me in late 70s, she was really pressured to put me on the bottle as I wasn't putting on enough weight (and looking at the photos, I was a bit scrawny). She said that she did try to give me a bottle, but was secretly relieved when I wouldn't take it, and happily carried on bf me until about 6 months (which was considered pretty 'out there' at the time).

I think attitudes are changing - my mum FF all six of her children in the 70s and all of her grandchildren have been breast fed (I'm currently breast feeding grandchild no 10). That to me is a very tangible change in practice.

And my experience of the NHS has been very good. The London hospital I gave birth in promotes breastfeeding really well imo - information given during my pregnancy, lots of posters in all waiting rooms/communal ward spaces, no formula given (you have to bring your own with you if you plan to FF), at least 2 breastfeeding counsellors available on post-natal wards by day, experienced midwives during the night to sit and support, more info on BFing and BFing support groups in my area in my discharge pack. There was also a BFing support group available every day of the week - I went along to 5 in the end as struggled with thrush and a crack that wouldn't heal and found (most of) the advice really good. And crucially, it was a great way of taking first steps into motherhood (the groups were the first "official" baby group type things I attended).

But I do think that bottle feeding is still considered the societal norm so we have quite a way to go. We need more images of breastfeeding - adverts, and not just for "breast is best" things but for any instance where an image of feeding a baby is required. Mumsnet could start by changing its logo!

Do you actually disagree with what this bloke has said though, because it sounds ok to me. Seems to me he's not saying breast feeding is abnormal just saying it's ok if you end up feeding formula.

I think the best attitude is that whatever a mother decides to do, she should not be made to feel guilty. I agree with ExplodingBananas that what the man said seems perfectly reasonable to me.
It irritates me that the Breast is Best brigade can sometimes me so aggressive in pushing their agenda (bear in mind I am in Australia, so I am not sure if is the same in UK) when, frankly, it is no-one's business how you feed your baby but your own. As long as said baby is healthy and happy then really, why must people push their opinions on you? Women who breastfeed should be supported, sure, but so too should women who bottlefeed. Many feel guilt anyway for using formula, but they should be able to make the decision and move forward with it without fearing remonstrations from the breastfeeding brigade.. Happy, relaxed mum equals happy baby, after all.

Mm, I'm a bit uncomfortable with some of what that bloke said. He makes breastfeeding sound difficult and freakish. For example, it's not true that "most women have some trouble, almost all supplement with formula". Many women breastfeed with ease, especially if they get the right support early on. In particular, I dislike the idea that you have to be a "super-lactating Earth mother type" to breastfeed successfully. I don't think I am that type. I'm an average sort of girl...

Am also a bit sick of the old chestnut that Dad can share the workload if you formula feed. I don't see feeding my baby as 'work'. Anyway DH shares my 'workload' by helping with the nappies and general chores and bringing me endless drinks while I curl up comfortably and feed DS. It's great - much easier than doing the washing up while he gives the baby a bottle.

Anyway, attitudes are changing and breastfeeding is increasingly 'normal'. That's great because it gives women more choice (e.g. some would love to breastfeed past 6 months but don't want to be seen as tree-hugging weirdos)

round of applause for Sharon137. i couldnt agree more.

"Happy, relaxed mum equals happy baby, after all".
Well, up to a point! I'd have been a happy, relaxed mum if I'd gone off to a spa for a week and drank lots of cocktails. Baby, less so I imagine.

happy mum=happy baby is the biggest pile of crap going to be quite honest.
it's wrong for sooooo many reasons

breastfeeding mothers are in a minority. do you know how few women still breastfeed at 6 weeks? or 6 months?
minute

and yet it's always the formula feeders whining about how vilified they are

well i'm sorry, but breastmilk IS better for babies.

if you have made an informed choice to formula feed then yes, you should be left alone to get on with it. sadly most mothers do not make an informed choice. many think that it's an equal alternative to breastmilk when it is not.

Sharon 123 - you're absolutely right about supporting mums whatever they choose to do. I sometimes resent being seen as part of a "Breast is Best Brigade" when I am not. One of the few things I have found difficult about breastfeeding is feeling that FF mums are defensive and think I'm criticising them when actually I'm just feeding my baby and enjoying a quiet cup of tea.

and for the record, I've never seen anyone remonstrating with a formula feeding mother and telling her she shoudl have breastfed

i've seen an awful lot of encouragement for people struggling with bf (rather than just suggesting a bottle ) and lots of support for those who are pregnant but unsure how they'd like to feed their baby

but i hae NEVER seen a formula feeding mother berated for how she is feeding her baby.
funny enough i've seen an awful lot of breastfeeding mothers having disgusting comments made to them on their choice of feeding

wtf is the breast is best brigade?

I just see a lot of women trying to help other women do what they want to do - breastfeed their babies.

Of course happy mum at a spa or clubbing the night away does not equal happy baby. But a mum who is relaxed about her feeding methods, who does not feel guilt for ff or stressed about bf for whatever reason - and the reasons are her own business - gives off a more contented air. Babies pick up on stress, so yes, happy mum at ease with her decision equals happy baby. I know that when I am stressed, tired etc, my own son seems to KNOW and is himself grizzly and unsettled.
And thisisyesterday, I do think that bf is pushed heavily enough in hospitals, books and society that the vast, vast majority of women know the benefits of bf. And how do you differentiate between women who "should be left to get on with it" and those that, in your opinion, have made an uninformed decision? you can't possibly know! It is up to them to make the decision, and my point is that I just don't see why it is anyone elses business.
Thanks SugarPlum!

but what on earth do you suggest people do?

Give up breastfeeding support altogether, just so that you don't feel bad?

I didn't manage to breastfeed my first baby because of poor support. If you had your way, I wouldn't GET any information or support, or help or brilliant advice on here, just because it might make someone feel bad.

I think whatever side of the fence you are sitting on you'll always think there are others sitting looking over at you and judging you, iyswim.
So if you get out a bottle you feel judged for not bf, and if you're bf then you worry about funny looks and comments about when you're going to give it up.

I guess its just where I live/type of people I befriend but I find it hard to believe that few people manage to BF. I think that all the same, it does still feel a bit weird sometimes when you are out, to find a comfy spot. I am a brazen hussy so I manage, but I wish more cafes would have those little 'breastfeeding welcome here' signs. Just so you know you're safe from beraters

Cross post, sorry.
Also totally agree that breastfeeding women battle a lot of negativity, but in my experience, the negativity to FF mums is a bit more aggressive, and from other mums, who surely should be supporting each other through the very challenging time of raising a baby.

what negativity to formla feeding mums do you mean exactly?

AND (sorry last post from me I promise) I also found breastfeeding support invaluable, and that it is there for those who request it is wonderful. I am not saying it should be hushed up, just that perhaps not judging ANYONE as long as they are doing what works for them and their baby is a good idea.
Phew!

I try and steer clear of these threads, but honestly, what negativity?

FF mums often report that they feel looked down on, but rarely if ever do I hear any direct comments from other mums or relatives. BF mums battle 'helpful' comments, and more blatant ones, every day.

Baby feeding rooms have pictures of bottles.

No one tells a FFing woman sitting on a park bench that she's disgusting. Or a woman in a cafe that she should be in the loos.

I really do not believe that there is more aggressive negativity to FFing mums. FF is, do not