DD2 is 7 weeks and I am really losing the will to breastfeed - remind me why it's still important at this stage?

[somethinganything]

OK, here goes: I have low milk supply and I know lots of people think they have low milk supply so in case anyone is wondering if I really do and am just being paranoid, I really do. Was completely determined to EBF DD2 (DD1 was mixfed for same reasons) but despite feeding her 24/7 after various trips to hospital and weight loss etc I was told to give her formula top-ups. She's now 7 weeks old and thriving but having loved breastfeeding when that's all I was doing I now find it a real chore. I have to time each feed (30mins on breast, then bottle) and it takes a good hour if not more so a good 5 hours of the day, when I also have a toddler to look after, are spent feeding. Also one breast hardly seems to produce anything so DD fusses and cries every time she's on there (I always put her there first to try to boost supply on that side).

At night-time it's a killer because it takes so long and often she's so knackered after the breastfeed that she falls asleep and it unwakeable but then wakes up 30 mins later ravenous. In the meantime I more or less just lie awake waiting for her to wake up again.

The only thing keeping me going for now is:
a) I continued for 5 months with DD1 so I think I might feel guilty if I stop earlier
b) she's probably my last child and despite all the hassle I do feel a bit misty-eyed about the idea of never breastfeeding again. But then again I do partly think I'm just doing it for me because it surely doesn't make all that much difference to DD given that 90% of her calories are coming from formula

Also, I just feel a bit silly when I'm out and about going through all the rigmarole of breastfeeding modestly and then whipping out a big bottle afterwards.

So I just wanted to hear your thoughts/experiences. Anyone else here mix-fed? How long did you stick it out? I just feel like juggling a toddler and a newborn is tricky enough without doubling (or at least adding a third onto) the amount of time you spend feeding.

Thanks, all

am in same boat with my 9week old DD!

She is my PFB and mix fed from about 2weeks due to weightloss. DD's feeds take an hour plus (my record was 7hours breastfeeding not including time for pumping and giving top ups!)

I am starting to hate it now (and I don't have a toddler to deal with!)

One suggestion re the nightfeeds I read in the "making more milk" book (buy it- its a great read!) when babies fall asleep exhausted at the breast is to give her about half her top up before the breastfeed- to give her enough energy for the feed and then finish off with the top up? Would that help?

Do you have an at breast supplementer? I try and use that sometimes and can speed up a feed but is a faff to set up so I don't use it as often as I should. (benefit being that supply is being boosted at the nips while the top up is given.)

BTW there is a great iphone app called Total baby which times feeds, which boob, records top ups etc and makes it really easy to see a record of her intake (but thats the geek in me- probably overkill!)

Hi Thandeka,

Remember seeing you on the TTC and pregnancy threads! Congrats on your DD.

Sorry to hear you're in the same boat. Part of me just feels I'd be able to give both children more quality time if I wasn't spending hours faffing around with all this. My heart kind of sinks at the start of feed times and I'm always relieved when I get to the end of the breastfeed. Surely it shouldn't be like that...

I hadn't heard of the at breast supplementer but my instinct is I probably don't want to invest in new stuff at this stage in case I do end up giving up. Love the total baby app - sadly don't have an iphone otherwise I'd be all over it!

maryz yes, but I will have to do the bottles anyway because she actually needs the top-ups. Basically the people in the transitional care unit said I'm just not able to give her enough to grow. Also, both DDs have always taken formula at room temp so I've never bothered with warming. I suppose keeping it cool is another concern altogether! Hadn't thought of that, but I'll have to deal with it either way.

Forgot to add- massive congrats for getting to 7 weeks- is the hardest thing ever especially when you are in the top up hell too (and with a toddler- I am in total awe!).

I think there is a way of making your own at breast supplementer- blue peter styley- involving some tubing and a syringe (guess like a nasogsatric tube stuff) but then suppose you would have to get hold of them- maybe phone local bfeeding support for advice?

The Supplemental nursing system is here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Express-Yourself-Mums-SMS-Supplemental/dp/B000W73YKY/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&s=b aby&qid=1271065074&sr=8-25 they probably have some cheaper on ebay. I borrowed mine from the lovely mumsnetter- "you", but am still using it unfortunately- maybe put out an appeal to see if a mnetter has one they are not using currently?

Yup, it's annoying. But thanks v much for the input anyway

btw are you pumping any of her top ups? that would increase supply too.

basically I feed for as long as I can stand (she would hang out all day if she could!) then give 60ml top up of EBM hopefully if I have it or formula if not, then I pump the next feeds top up (usually get about 30ml so sometime pump inbetween feeds so i get more). I have hired a hospital grade pump from NCT which works out at about £1 a day so pumping is v.quick.

And back to original question about reminding you why it is important- breastmilk is groovy biscuits for your baby- any amount she gets is great. The way I see it- formula is like her "bread" but breastmilk is like a top quality steak. Together a nice steak sandwich but steak is better than bread! A pediatrician friend of a friend told her than you only need a 10 minute breastfeed at a time to get all the goodness a baby needs - not entirely sure how true this is - as my baby would starve on 10mins but suppose if it is 10mins followed by formula?- but heck it makes her feel better for mixed feeding- and maybe that would help you too?

If you want we could be "breastfeeding hell" buddies and encourage each other to stick it out? Coz I am not sure how much longer I can last either! My goal is currently 12 weeks and will review it then!

12 weeks sounds like a feasible goal - I'm on board! But don't get online that often so would just check in as often as I can.

I occasionally express - would like to do more but find it really hard to find the time. Also DD is taking rather a lot more formula that: sometimes 50-70, sometimes up to 120.

V helpful stuff about the importance of BM though - thanks!

Thandeka, that comment from the paediatrician is unbelievable and just shows how scarily little they know about breastfeeding. And yet this doesn't stop them from offering their 'helpful' advice. It's no wonder we have such low BF rates in Britain!!

Something - Thandeka is absolutely right about pumping top-ups rather than giving formula. And can you get help from a BF counsellor? Most will be very experienced at managing this sort of situation and will able to help you to increase your supply up to the point where you are meeting DD's needs, phase out the formula and get on with reaping all the considerable benefits of laziness that maryz has pointed out ...

boobmeister appreciate your input but I do not have enough milk to phase out formula altogether. When I express I get tiny amounts of milk. I genuinely have a low milk supply. I know there is a real reluctance to acknowledge that this can be a problem because BF rates are so low anyway and many women think they've got low supply when they haven't and might be discouraged if there was more discussion about this problem. But, some people cannot exclusively breastfeed. I am one of them unfortunately.

I did speak to one NHS breastfeeding counsellors but found her to be quite unrealistic in her suggestions for boosting milk supply. I've been taking the fenugreek supplements, have tried domperidone, and I express when I can. But expressing 6-8 times a day, throughout day and night (as she suggested) when I'm getting very little sleep at night and already spending a good 5 hours a day feeding as well as trying to look after a baby and a newborn, is just not feasible. I've got to try to find a sustainable way forward, if possible incorporating breastfeeding into that.

No advice, sorry but it does sound as someone else said that you have the worst of both worlds, and are doing fantastically to have got to 7 weeks.
As for the does it matter? Any breastmilk is better than none. And breastfeeding in itself is worth doing, even if she isn't getting much milk.

Hi congrats, on your lo,
and well done you for coping so far.

a little bit of contrary advice ......
if you are unhappy with bfing, you should congratulate yourseLf on the fab job you have done so far, and STOP .
bUT only if you are sure that it is what you really want to do. Guilt is a terrible thing and if you feel you would enjoy your baby more by not bfing then dont !
Otherwise dont think about 12 weeks , just think of it a day at a time or even a feed at a time ,

good luck !

Thanks, both for your really helpful messages!

No advice as I'm not in your situation, just wanted to say that you two ladies are fab for pushing so hard through problems to give your littlies BM. I am a big BF advocate but don't know if I'd have your patience. Much respect here.

Hope you find your way, whatever decision you make.

Honestly, you've given boob milk for 7 weeks - pat yourself on the back, you've done a fabulous job, but if you don't really want to do it any more then don't, and don't beat yourself up about it if you decide to stop BF.

Thanks, all for taking the time to post - think I need to have a proper honest think about how I feel each time I feed her. And do as hotbot suggests and take it one day at a time.

Dear Something, well done on persevering thus far. It is not easy when you feel you are not happy.
In terms of increasing milk supply, Dr Jack Newman is The Man www.drjacknewman.com/ Check out his breastfeeding help page. He seems to suggest that Fenugreek is only useful in the first week or so. Domperidome can be useful where all other issues have been ruled out, but the dosage he suggests is 30mg three times a day. That's nine Motilium tabs, a friend who was taking it found she needed to be taking this level to see any real effect and even then she did offer two 'topups' in the day. I'm offering this info because most people think that one or two tabs a day will be sufficient, you may have been taking the full nine but the info might be helpful to someone else also.
Any breastmilk your baby is getting is a bonus. You may end up combining breastmilk and formula, you may wean from breastmilk sooner rather than later. Think about how you may feel after you have weaned - I'm not saying that to put pressure on you, but just so you can be sure you've looked at it all round. Your baby is thriving now and will likely continue to thrive on formula.
Be happy, whatever you decide!

Hi somethinganything, think the day at a time thing is probably better than our twelve week goal at mo! Today I officially hate breastfeeding- had the worst nights sleep ever and it isn't dd's fault who was sleeping like a noisy grunty angel (5.5hour and 4.5hour stretch respectively ( and had to wake her for feeds for both she might have gone longer!) but my bloody boobs kept waking me up, after 3 hours and then every half hour after that to see if dd awake she wasn't. Waking her from a sleep to breastfeed is pointless she won't latch properly and falls back asleep in minutes. Am so fed up of my boobs! I could have had so much sleep last nite if it wasn't for them! Grrrrrrrrr. How is it going for you?

Thandeka - why don't you express during the night if your boobs are uncomfortable rather than waking DD to breastfeed? There's no point waking her in the middle of the night to feed, if she gets hungry she'll wake you. Sounds like she might sleep longer overnight if you stop waking her up. That means you'll get more sleep too (sore boobs aside).

THanks joyjac v helpful. Will check out that website. I'm not sure my doc would happily prescribe that amount of domperidone for me - she was a bit sceptical of prescribing something purely for its side-effects in the first place. But wil have a look anyway and thanks for your thoughts.

Thankdeka Sorry you had such a bad night. I'm feeling a wee bit more positive today. Had a pretty good night and one v nice snuggly breastfeed with no fussing (although I suspect she was asleep and just nibbling for most of it but it was a big improvement on the past few days). Having said that, when I expressed yesterday I literally got a teaspoon of milk from my left breast, which is a bit depressing. No wonder DD is getting fed up with it. Will just see how it goes. It may be that DD makes the decision for me by getting fed up with sucking away for hours with little reward! Good luck today - hope you have more luck with your boobs in the next 24 hours! (Sounds like your supply is pretty good, no?)

I had a breast reduction 9 years ago so supply is pretty good considering that- I worked out about 2/3'ds of her intake is breast milk and 1/3rd formula. If I wanted to work my ass off at it I possibly could get up to a full supply but am just so exhausted with it all plus am going back to work in 6 weeks for one day a week so I am not sure it is worth it or if I have the energy. In last week or so i did start expressing her night feeds but it can mean am awake more- ie awake to express, then awake to pump then awake to express again, would like to sync up somehow! But also the waking because of my boobs started in the last week or so too so I wonder if I have inadvertently boosted supply by pumping. I personally find pumps more efficient "feeders" than DD who still isn't brilliant at it.

Somethinganything- glad you are feeling more positive- as I keep getting told what you express doesn't necessarily indicate supply (but personally I think it can be a fair approximation- but then I use a hospital grade pump which is the closest thing to a baby anyhow) what pump do you use? The doc refused to prescribe me domperidone as it can have bad effects on bub apparently and it gets into breastmilk so am sticking to fenugreek, marshmallow root, stinging nettle and milk thistle though have not noticed any effect (but then I often forget to take them!)

I was in exactly the same position with DD1 and expecting the same now with DC2

All I can say is that I gave up on the rubbish breast after about four months and fed fine on the good side. I did look wonky but actually found DD got more milk when I didn't bother with the rubbish side at all.

Hi Thandeka - I have a medela swing pump. I expect DD can get a bit more out than the pump but only a bit I should think so supply on one side is still pretty rubbish. But I have had a few nice feeds in the past 24 hours and her night-time sleeping is getting a lot better. Interesting re the Domperidone. I only took it for a week and didn't see much difference so I stopped - have taken fenugreek but keep forgetting and it makes you smell weird doesn't it?!

iamwhatiamwhatiam thanks for your post. If you don't mind me asking, did you stay wonky afterwards? It's just that my breasts are pretty microscopic anyway and if I were left with a big size difference between them I reckon it'd be quite noticeable!

Hi
Just to say I was in the same boat with my first and gave breast and bottle for 6 weeks until for the same reasons as you I lost the will to breastfeed and went to formula only. Now 4 weeks into feeding number 2 baby and had all the same problems. Have just stopped breastfeeding as 3 weeks doing both - no sleep, diminishing supply, fussy baby = stressed mummy, unhappy toddler, frustrated Daddy. Not a happy family.
This time however the decision to stop breastfeeding was much easier although still a bit sad. I don't have nearly as much guilt as I did last time (about not being able to feed my baby etc) and realise that I've tried hard but that you need to think of the bigger picture. Stopping breastfeeding is OK if it making you miserable. It is more impoprtant that you are a happy mummy who enjoys her baby and the rest of her family. You have tried vv hard with the breastfeeding and it is just not working for you. People will kill me for saying this but ....it doesn't matter that much. Formula is really very good stuff and no-one can tell later on who is breast and who has been bottle fed. Don't beat yourself up, just stop.
I just pumped off when I felt uncomfortable for a week and my milk has pretty much gone.

xx