'nipple confusion' - comments anyone ?

[hub2dee]

Hi all,

Our baby (one week old) was in NICU / SCBU for a few days, fed mostly on NGT (nasal tube to tummy) and bottle. A few sucks on the breast, but not much so she could conserve her energy.

We are now home, and have been continuing to bottle feed, and try at the breast, but not for extensive periods as the baby seems to find it difficult / boring / tiring - it's obviously not as 'easy' as sucking on a shaped teat with gravity assisted milk delivery !

A health visitor today said to dw that our baby has 'nipple confusion' and basically she should have been bfing more, earlier, and that in her experience, if we don't 'crack' bfing in one week, that will be it.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, DW was somewhat upset at this.

The HV suggested a nipple guard might help.

Wonder if anyone had similar experience to relate.

I appreciate that at the end of the day, DW must be the one to make the decision, and she must do what she feels happy with. I think if she felt perseveering might work she would feel happier trying, IYSWIM. As it is, having the baby struggle /cry for 15 / 20 minutes is difficult IYSWIM.

It was suggested to us that the 'baby to breast for 5 minutes, followed by a bottle' would not be a helpful way to develop the baby's ability to bf. Possibly feeding from a cup would....

Hmmm.... any comments MN crowd ?

TIA.

Kanga - We used some NUK teats which are supposed to be soft and good and some firmer silicon Avent 1 teats (anti colic, blah blah) which are also supposed to be good. Camille feeds well from the bottles, but is just a bit lazy (or perhaps more accurately her positioning isn't perfect) on the breast.

WindyTown - loads of family, her folks are around all the time, and mine too, but we don't know many couples with young babies. Cetainly not right next to us. I think because Camille came early we're also way ahead of all our NCT class ! We're seeing some close friends with a 7 month old on Sunday, which will be lovely. I think as we settle Camille in, get past her due date, get some fat on her etc. we can start venturing out a bit more and start meeting up with other people near us. TBH, the whole labile hypertension / 'c-section next week' / small for dates / NICU / tricky bf / mastitis has been a bit much, but we're both still in decent shape. Camille is doing well, the c-section recovery is great, the bf is possibly starting to come together and with a bit of luck the mastitis will vanish with the antibiotics in a few days.

Haven't ventured on this thread before but thought I'd contribute my mastitis experiences!! I had it with each of my babies. Antib's are wonder drugs for mastitis, ime, and I started to feel better within hours and the pain eased off within 24/36hrs. My gawd though, it makes your eyes water when the baby first latches on.

I never stopped feeding my babies, I was told it was better to keep the milk moving through the breast and that the a/b's wouldn't harm the baby as the same drug is often administred directly to poorly babies. Hope your dw is feeling better soon!

Hub2dee, we found these teats great. They fit the Avent bottles and I notice they're giving a free sample on that site at the moment. They're softer and flatter than the Avent teats.

Thanks sudonim. DW is on the mend. We clarified all the antibiotic in breastmilk stuff with the doctor, and bf counsellors etc. and, of course, the MN crowd and are expressing / feeding breast milk and will be trying more time on the breast.

chipmonkey: those teats look great. I'll order some. Probably better than the ordinary ones with those Avent bottles. Thank you.

I tried to find Savoy cabbage in three shops today, but had no joy. We are instead trying 'hearted cabbage'. I take it DW uses it straight from the fridge ?

(WWB: I had a smiling grunt, if that helps ? )

I suppose a smiling grunt is better than nothing ... oh well, we tried

Glad she's on the mend. With regard to the cabbage, I found using it straight from the fridge was most soothing.

Glad to hear your dw is on the mend, H2D!

hub2bee

I used sdavoy cabbage on my breats, greener the bettere apparently.

I kept in in the fridge the slapped a couple of leaves on each breats.

I swear it was instant relief(if a bit wiffy) and I was amazed how quick the cabbage actually got hot.

May be an old wives tale cabbage on breast to help pull milk out and ease the pain but an old wives tale I was grateful for

I had a similar experience, my 4 week old son suddenly stopped feeding properly and the HV said it looked like nipple confusion but he'd never had a bottle so very wierd -it was like he 'forgot' what to do and we had to keep trying to get him latched on for up to half an hour each time -very very frustrating and tiring and I nearly gave up breastfeeding.

However, I persevered as I realised that breastfeeding was really important to me and when he was in hospital(as he was dehydrated), I made use of the breast pump to get my milk supply back up and had lots of support from the breastfeeding adviser there. Check out if there's a breastfeeding adviser in your local hosp or birth centre or ring NCT or smilar support services.
Her help and support was invaluable and I did persevere and now we're fine and can say that breastfeeding is 'established'.

She suggested things like:
-skin to skin contact, feed when both naked
-mother to get in bath and husband had baby to mother to lie on her chest and pour warm water over baby to keep him warm and let him root and look for breast and then try and feed (like being reborn apparently)

I don't think there' a time limit on it as long as milk supply is kept up (get electric breast pump for this).

Good luck and hope all goes well. I always had in back of my mind, that if I got too stressed and my baby got too stressed, then we would switch to formula so took pressure off I suppose.

Hope goes well.

Update - dw tracked down a Savoy cabbage ! Seems to work very nicely, thank you !

We're going to just see how it goes, see the bf person at the local hospital, maybe visit Oxford again, maybe visit local baby cafés etc.

All swelling nearly gone, temp has been fine for a couple of days now.

Brilliant, brilliant! Well done Dee, Hub and Camille!

Thanks hunker. Last few days not been easy. Glad dw is on the mend.

PS - am not ignoring e-mail.... simply 'time challenged' LOL

Oh, goodness, don't worry! I quite understand!

Hi Hub2Dee. Glad to hear that Dee is feeling better. Do you have a hand pump that you can bring with you if you do come to Oxford again? That way, if you do get delayed by traffic on the way home you could find somewhere quiet that Dee could express. I always find that my supply is really boosted after dd has breastfed, and I have to pump pretty much as soon as I get home, just to stop me getting too full and uncomfortable. I just wanted to let you know that clinic this week is Monday and Thursday, instead of Tuesday and Thursday. Maybe see you there?
Jen

The noisy (but good) medela takes batteries, so we could have used it at the clinic or in the car (powering it off the wall socket does give it a bit more oomph though).

I think we're going to stay put for a few days - we're both a bit shattered, but maybe next week ? Not quite sure yet....

Hope you're doing OK.

u got the mini medula? its a good pump. i use it as well, its pretty quick, get good rechargable batteries for it if u do need to take it out and about.

That's the one, misdee. Having seen some hand held ones, I think those might be good too, and much quieter for added secret milk extraction, LOL.

At the clinic there was a poster for Breast Expressions or something like that who hire out hospital-quality units for £15 per month or something like that.

if my kids are about i shove a cushion over it cos they are 'fascinated' to see the milk coming out. sometimes i want some peace and not have 2 kids staring at the milk flow .

how are things today?

LOL at your boob cloaking. Maybe you should do it in a dark cupboard ?????

Things are good in our house today. Camille got weighed: (2.4 kilos up from 2.16 last week), Dee's feeling MUCH better, milk is returning to normal too.

We saw a bf counsellor yesterday who continued the 'nipple confusion' / 'use a cup' message, but I just don't think I buy it. We may try in the future as a last resort, but I think we'll just visit the counsellor up in Oxford a few more times, see someone else locally, and just see how it goes...

We can always hire a double pump and express till the cows come home, LOL.

The Avent Isis is very good (and quiet!!) if you're looking for a handheld pump, Hub2dee. Glad to hear Dee's feeling better and Camille's gaining weight, It reassuring when they gain weight after being born tiny, isn't it? You'll have to get bigger shoes!

Thanks for the Isis mention, chipmonkey. Yes, the weight gain is very reassuring. Those shoes were a bit tight, LOL.

Hi Hub2Dee. Good to hear that Camille is gaining weight. It is really reassuring, isn't it. I wanted to let you know that clinic this week is Wednesday instead of Thursday, but if you plan to stay home it is next week that is more important. I'll post after Wednesday and let you know when the next one should be, but you probably should call just before you leave as well - there will be an answerphone message if clinic is cancelled for any reason, which would save you a wasted journey.

We had a good afternoon today - Megan latched on brilliantly for me, without any help. Unfortunately we haven't been able to do it again tonight, but I'll try again tomorrow. We just need a bit more consistency...

If you're still looking for a manual pump, I'd also recommend the Tommee Tippee one - I find it very good. I bought it because it was compatible with the bottles that had come with the steriliser that I'd already bought, so if you have bottles already, that might be something to consider. I figured that I'd have enough to worry about without juggling milk and bottles .

Say hi to Dee and Camille for me - maybe I'll see you next week.
Jen

Hi Jen, dd will be a little porker before Summer is out, LOL.

Thanks for telling me about Wednesday ! They seem to chop and change the days they are open an awful lot ! Maybe I just caught them during a difficult Summer ? !

Good luck with yer latching - things sound like they're at least going in the right direction !

I'll look at the Tommee manual pump as well. Interestingly, I think the manuals have a higher max vacuum than the electric (at least the medela one does IIRC). Will see what fits the bottles we have too ! Good idea that.

Will say hi.

Night !

i can recommend the tommee tippee nuby bottles. dd3 will only take milk from those.

the tomee tippee bottles also fit onto the basic Boot's manual breast pump (which i found very effective - could get 8oz out in about 10mins and very good for single handed pumping)

Oh no, more breast pumps to look at, LOL.

Thanks for the recommendations !