'nipple confusion' - comments anyone ?

[hub2dee]

Hi all,

Our baby (one week old) was in NICU / SCBU for a few days, fed mostly on NGT (nasal tube to tummy) and bottle. A few sucks on the breast, but not much so she could conserve her energy.

We are now home, and have been continuing to bottle feed, and try at the breast, but not for extensive periods as the baby seems to find it difficult / boring / tiring - it's obviously not as 'easy' as sucking on a shaped teat with gravity assisted milk delivery !

A health visitor today said to dw that our baby has 'nipple confusion' and basically she should have been bfing more, earlier, and that in her experience, if we don't 'crack' bfing in one week, that will be it.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, DW was somewhat upset at this.

The HV suggested a nipple guard might help.

Wonder if anyone had similar experience to relate.

I appreciate that at the end of the day, DW must be the one to make the decision, and she must do what she feels happy with. I think if she felt perseveering might work she would feel happier trying, IYSWIM. As it is, having the baby struggle /cry for 15 / 20 minutes is difficult IYSWIM.

It was suggested to us that the 'baby to breast for 5 minutes, followed by a bottle' would not be a helpful way to develop the baby's ability to bf. Possibly feeding from a cup would....

Hmmm.... any comments MN crowd ?

TIA.

If you think I'm a marvel, you should see dw.

She's fab.

Poor Dee! Thats all she needs now isn't it! I've been there and its agony! But the good thing is that the penicillin should knock it on the head very quickly, I was fine within a day on the 3 times I had it.

Just reading all the archived mastitis threads to better appreciate impact of anti-biotics on milk. GP advised baby likely to get diarrhoea if fed breast milk / EBM, so we might run with formula for a few days as babba is already underweight and probably doesn't need any extra stress to her gut IYSWIM.

I'll carry on reading...

Hot towels deffo for the let down, hot or cold depending on personal preference for discomfort.

Savoy cabbages V V Good- chill them well first. Shouldnt work, silly, but does!.

Mastitis a shame but not a surprise given the problems you've all ahd and that stress will knock immunity anyway. Sounds like you have a supportive GP, many just say give up!

The cabbages and towels- even mastitis- sounds like you're getting onto the 'normal' bit, rather than the what he hell's going on hewre bit?

What an achievement! Well done you!

Hub2dee, my GP adv to keep on feeding and it was fine for us ( but painful!!), didn't seem to affect the milk but that was with ds1 and ds2 who were both big healthy full-termers, may be different for your dainty little dd!

My GP's advice was to continue feeding as well, as engorgement can make the mastitis worse, and because the benefits of breastmilk outweigh any potential problems with the antibiotics. Diarrhoea isn't a given with antibiotics anyway; it might be worth carrying on with the breastfeeding rather than formula and seeing whether there is any reaction before switching to the formula.

had mastitis with dd and was given ab's with no ill effects to baby, so not a given. hope you get it sorted so you can all sit back a bit to enjoy being a family, p.s. am pleasantly surprised to see such a devoted and involved father-to-be/new father, goo for you , wish your dw all the best from me

that's "good for you" btw

Hub2dee, I was given ABs when ds1 was newborn and it didn't affect him in any way.

Hub, can you ring the Breastfeeding Network's Drugline (have posted the no before - will post later if you can't find it) to ask about antibiotics and breastmilk?

My feeling (from anecdotal evidence) is that the small amount of antibiotics likely to be present in Dee's milk are no more of a strain on Camille's gut than formula.

And if Dee feeds, the mastitis will clear quicker than if she expresses too.

Hub2Dee I was also given antibiotics when I got mastitis when dd3 was a few days old - I carried on breastfeeding and I don't remember any adverse effects (on the baby). They made me feel better really quickly too.

Hi all,

Thanks (again) for the input.

MN sometimes feels like a weird lecture room (in a NICE way) at a friendly lefty university.

... it's full of people all quietly muttering away, doing their thing, and then in you walk with your question / post... right to the front of the room... you clear your throat, fire away... and then the level of noise starts to rise and everyone is there, offering advice and opinions and comments and the conversation kicks off !

... and you can just sit there, at the front, lapping up all the different ideas and experiences, feeding back more questions to what is now a noisy room...

(Well, the analogy ain't much good, but you kind of get my point).

DW is expressing full time, and is continuing (although flow is somewhat reduced), as the baby's latch and ability to bf (without the extra hands / skill of the bf counsellors) isn't there 100% yet.

The BFN have their info here , and clearly from many of the posters on MN, adverse reactions in baby's tummy is not 'de facto' IYSWIM. It's a risk, and maybe a more significant risk for a prem baby, though, and I think DW would prefer not to give the baby her milk for the 5 day ab course (although if it were my choice, I'd probably listen to the crowd of friendly faces in the lecture hall).

She did read everyone's posts and experience, and thanks you all for your input. With a little bit of luck, the fever will clear overnight, the soreness over a day or two, and the baby will be back on the breast after the weekend, with New ! Improved ! Super Latch !

(fingers crossed).

Wotcha hub

BF can be soooo difficult. We're constantly fed images of happy mums and babes BF and it can make it so difficult for those that it just doesn't come easily to. Dee, Camille and you are obviously doing everything possible to make it happen, and that is good. But, if for whatever reason it doesn't work out, then leave it. Use formula FGS. Don't let fear of 'failure' cloud the first few weeks you have with your precious girl.

hub, i haven't read the whole of this thread (it's loooong!), but noticed mention of nipple shields...IME this was the only thing that kept us from ff ds, who just WOULD NOT bf unless a mw was there to make him do it. he was full term, but didn't feed properly until about day 5, when mw suggested shield as a last resort before ff. result - he loved it, fed well, & we managed to lose the shields within a few days too. seems that ds preferred the more solid 'feel' of the shield to bare breast, but quickly started feeding from breast when he got the hang of bf. think some are wary of them as they can - in mediumish term i think - decrease supply. my mw said to use them as better to bf for, say, 4 months than 4 days, & it worked beautifully for us. good luck anyway & hope things are getting easier

Hi Hub2Dee,

So sorry to hear that Dee has been sore - how is it going? I don't know if you heard, but Laura has just recovered from a horrible bout of mastitis and was taking the antibiotics, and Harrison has been drinking her milk all the way through without any problems. CF and SI said that it was very unlikely to cause Harrison any problems, and Laura said that he has been fine.

We haven't had any luck in getting Megan to latch on here at home today . I have tried at every daytime feed, but she got upset every time, so I haven't pressed the issue. We'll try again tomorrow at the clinic - maybe see you there?

Hi JW,

I think DW is opting to use formula whilst on abs. Didn't know about Harrison and mum. Interesting. From what I gather, dw has very little to worry about, and that it is probably better to continue bfing, but we'll see....

We're not coming up tomorrow - dw's temp etc. still high and she feels crappy. Maybe next week though ?

Sorry to hear today's latching didn't work out for you. Maybe next week will be your 'breathrough' week ?

Anitbiotics are normally safe to have when bf, and it is hardly ever better to stop bf because of medication (some exceptions, not many).

Hi hub2be

My twins were also in neo ic and scbu, they were fed on tpn for a while and then by nasogastrictube.

I too wanted to breastfeed and as they were getting my mumymilk thought they would adapt well

Unfortunatly for me the boys were to very tired and did also seem a bit confused on what to do even with the assistane of scbu nurses. Eventually my milk dried at 7 weeks and i had no option but to use a bottle

As long as baby is being fed and thriving I dont suppose it matters, that was the attitude I felt I had to take as I felt a failure of a mum not being able to milk my pupies anymore for my boys. The boys are now 18 months and doing ok

Hi jambourne and thanks for your input. The early time (and non-breast feeding) in NICU / SBU certainly seems to have an impact (whether prem or term).

DW is still battling through mastitis. Boy does that look like nasty man flu.

I imagine dw is very put off / upset by the whole bf thing now. Not sure whether she will continue to express and feed from the bottle, continue building on the time spent bfing and hopefully get Camille used to it or move to formula.

I think we'll just keep an open mind and see how things go each day.

Does Mastitis lumps / soreness usually go in 24 or more like 48 hours anyone (assuming antibiotics, regular hot towels / baths / massages and expressing) ?

Hub, do you think Dee would benefit from posting here herself about this? Or does she think we're all a bunch of weirdos?

I just wonder whether getting some direct support here rather than second hand through you would be of any practical or emotional benefit to her. It might be easier for her to say how she's actually feeling if she feels she can do it herself.

Just a thought; feel free to tell me to crawl back under my stone if you want to.

Oh, I'm sure she would benefit... but I'm not sure she would do it, IYSWIM, simply not her cup of tea. (Though she is realising it's a source of fab advice etc.)

I'll show her your post and see if I get a nod or a grunt.

Mmmm, I thought that might be the case. I hope she nods rather than grunts though.

Let us live in hope.

Have you thought about changing the bottles and nipples?

We used ones that were supposed to be good for colic prevention and breast feeding....

They were shaped like a nipple IYSWIM

hub, does dw have support (other than from you - obviously ) like family, friends with babies/smallchildren? when i had my dd none of my friends etc had kids and it was rather lonely without that support (this was in my pre mn days)