Breast vs. bottle (am I brave or insane?)

[emkana]

article in Times today

What interests me, both in this article and in previous threads on the Mumsnet, is how there is a feeling that the "breastfeeding lobby" or "mafia" as I believe it has been called is regarded as so powerful and influential and as having such a large impact on new mothers everywhere to make their lives an utter misery. I just can't see it! I see formula etc. on sale everywhere, articles on how to bottlefeed in every baby magazine, which always always say that you shouldn't feel guilty for bottlefeeding, I see bottlefeeding on TV, I see bottlefeeding celebrities, bottlefeeding mothers at toddler groups...
Breastfeeding? I vaguely remember a poster on the maternity ward, but it wasn't particularly in your face. I might have been given a leaflet on breastfeeding by the midwife. That's it.

I just don't get it, I really don't.
I don't mean to upset anyone, by the way. I'm just genuinely interested in your experiences. Honestly.

Yes, you are right, you didnt say that. I still thinks its a shame its breast vs bottle.

i didnt say that. Of course it's impossible to know that and it's not useful anyway.

I'll just put in my two cents worth and say that while breastfeeding is considered by most midwives etc to be better for baby than bottlefeeding, western society is hardly geared for it. How many ugly looks did I get when I used to feed my daughter in public (I didn't see why I should have to go into a public toilet or chageroom to do it). And wasn't everyone at playgroup rolling their eyes at eachother when myself and one other woman were still breastfeeding when our babies were 14 months old? (Even my supervisor at the university where I was doing my postgrad degree obviously thought I was insane to still be breastfeeding whn dd was 14 months...she said she thought it was sad when children weren't allowed to drink out of cups....and of course my dd was drinking out of a cup as well at this stage).
On the other hand, there definitely was too much pressure about breastfeeding in my maternity hospital. One woman in my ward who had decided before she gave birth that she wanted to bottlefeed was given very dirty looks, and many attempts were made to talk her out of it. I wanted to breastfeed but my milk took an unusually long time to come in properly, and I had to BEG the midwife to give my tiny dd a bottle, as I was sure that after three days of nothing but colostrum, she must have been hungry and thirsty.
Also, the attitude that 'right, now that the labour is over, you can INSTANTLY start looking after baby fulltime and breastfeeding her constantly' was a bit rough. In my mum's day they would bring the baby in for feeds and let the mother rest at other times.
I was absolutely shattered when I got out of hospital. I did not sleep AT ALL for three days. Literally not a wink. If I asked the midwives to mind the baby while I slept they would say, okay, but then bring her back half an hour later for a b/feed because she was grizzling. I had to change all her nappies etc from the word go, and was encouraged to give her a bath as soon as my epidural had worn off and I could stand up.
In retrospect I think it would've been more humane if they had given dd a drink of formula and let me sleep for two hours. I was on the verge on insanity by the time I got out of there -exhausted, tearful and shocked by the whole experience. Surely a couple of bottles would not have sabotaged my breastfeeding chances.
I know the colostrum is good for the new babies, but really - the regime in the average matenrity hospital these days is positively abusive towards the mothers.

I think if we look back at the original post, it wasn't really about whether there is support or not for those that want to bf, it was about whether or not those who do bottle feed feel there is a bf 'lobby' or 'mafia' (ahem, note - original posters words - I only used her words to answer the question).

Original poster also said she was genuinely interested in our experiences. Seem not unless they are in line with her own.

I said that in RL I haven't come across such a 'mafia' but that there have been occasions on MN that some posters have been so ridiculously evangelical about bfing and some have been downright nasty - anyone remember the one likening formula feeding to putting a child in a car withough a car seat/seat belt? If you recall, one poster put on a thread the next morning about the fact that due to the previous evenings thread she'd not slept for worrying.

There are a select few who, imo, have unnecessarily tried to put the fear of God into people who feed with formula. And I stress it's a few - I'm not talking generally about people who try to promote bf which absolutely fair enough.

Original poster also said she was genuinely interested in our experiences. Seem not unless they are in line with her own.

Where did I write anything that was negative towards anybody who was not agreeing with me? Please could you quote the relevant posts, because I really can't see where I'm supposed to have done what you accuse me of.

Q: "So, GdG, some of us on here threaten and bully others into breastfeeding, do we? Right."

You asked, I told you. Yes, a few people do (not bully people into bf but try to make them feel s**t if they haven't). I wasn't referring to you personally for one minute.

Maybe I misunderstood but in your first post you raise the issue of a possible 'bf lobby', you said you didn't feel that at all but were interested in others' experiences and then when I said I felt there were a few on here that certainly fit that category it felt as though it was immediately shot down as ridiculous.

If you feel that you have come across a breastfeeding "lobby" on Mumsnet, then of course I believe you. But I thought you meant specifically people and posts on this thread, and I can't see any of that here.
Also I have never once on Mumsnet attacked anybody for not breastfeeding, AFAIK. Nor can I remember hercules every doing this, nor anybody else who has posted on this thread. But you came on this thread that some of the posters on this thread are part of the "breastfeeding mafia". But you didn't want to name names.... Now I feel that this is unfair and unhelpful. Specifically which of the posters on this thread has made other people made to feel bad about bottlefeeding?

There lies the misunderstanding then - I didn't mean anyone on this thread. My post said:

Q: "The only breastfeeding 'mafia' I've come across is on this site - just a select few (not naming names)."

Note 'on this site', NOT on this thread.

I was most definitely not referring to you, hercules or anyone else posting on this specific thread.

Im breastfeeding now and have done for six of the last seven years.

Apart from one traumatic month with ds4 (due to thrush and cracked nipples) I can honestly say I've absolutely LOVED it beyond measure.

It has been fulfilling and empowering and I'd have no hesitation in recommending it in the hope that other women can experience what I have.

I'm not judging women who choose to bottlefeed. But I feel no reason why I should underplay my love of breastfeeding just in case others feel judged.

I agree Spidermama - if it's worked out for you and you loved it, that's brilliant and of course you have every right to promote it. Quite right.

The few I'm talking about go beyond that and try to frighten people with 'statistics' about how risky it is to feed with formula. Pah.

But spidermama, you were judging women who bottlefeed when you said;

"I know I'll be in trouble for this but I think the whole 'uh oh! Here come the breastfeeding police' thing comes from deep-seated guilt because they know BF is best"

• as if there can't possibly be a 'breastfeeding police', or anyone who is OTT about breastfeeding - it must all be an excuse by bottlefeeders to get over their guilt. That is judging, and as I've explained already, I for one am certainly not guilty (I'm quite proud that I managed to make a very difficult decision and live with it) but I do get annoyed at people who try to shove breastfeeding down my throat. However, I'll point out that I don't think anyone's done that on this thread, just on others on MN.

Just my personal experience. I loved bf, was compliment by my very pro bfing hv on how relaxed and positive I was about it. Trouble wa, just *couldn't make enough and dd ended up half starved. In the end put in a bottle but kept it all going in part for 4 months with her and ds.

I fully agree that bf is best, that mothers should have all the support in the world, but it did get to be a drag when after the event people would say, time after time, 'If you had only rested more/ drank more water / whanged your feeding position', and all of that not knowing that I had done all of the those things and more....except rest, since dd would feed for 45 minutes every 2 hours day and night and would only sleep if held

No Wobble I most certainly wasn't judging bottle feeders. I was judging people who use terms like 'Breastfeeding police' etc and trying to make sense of their strong feelings. NOT bottlefeeders.

I assumed you were talking about bottlefeeders because a breastfeeder couldn't have a 'deep seated guilt' about BF being best, because they'd done it.

No, I was talking about people with a certain attitude having a deep seated guilt, as you will note if you re-read the quote.

Yes, there are people on mumsnet and rl who feel it's acceptable to berate people who bottlefed as they feel they have the moral high ground.
I was the only one who questioned a poster recently for saying awful things about bottlefeedin and I was told to lay off. I only said something along the lines that her post would upset some and was offensive.

Guilt is pointless anyway, i agree if you dont bf you havent failed at anything but for those wanted to bf and couldnt, shouldnt we question why they werent able to so that in the future mums can get the necessary help and support?

If I'd decided not to bf I would feel a mv was questioning y intelligence and ability to make such a decision and would be peed off I'm sure.

But 'those people' couldn't include breastfeeders, as how could they have guilt about not breastfeeding if they had breastfed? The people who seem to have guilt are bottlefeeders, unless you think there's breastfeeders out there in guilt about having breastfed.

It is possible to discuss support issues if you breastfed. I am saying I dont see how guilt is helpful.

I agree hercules, my last comment wasn't aimed at you, I was saying that I couldn't see how spidermama's comment about BF related guilt could apply to non-bottlefeeders.

no, of course you're right.

No of course not Wobbly. But nor does it apply to all bottle feeders. It applies solely to those people who blow off about 'bf police' etc.

Sorry if our wires are crossed Wobbly, but I get fed up because I feel I'm not allowed to celebrate my personal joy at breastfeeding for fear of being attacked.

For the record I have never once critisised anyone else for their choice of feeding method.

Fair enough spidermama - but my point was that not all bottlefeeders who object to the 'bf police' have deep seated guilt about bf, such as me. I can honestly say I don't feel guilty about bottlefeeding - I feel sad about the circumstances that led to having to make that decision but for me it was the only right decision, so there's nothing to be guilty about. But I DO get really REALLY at the breastfeeders who seem to get their kicks by putting themselves on a pedestal over everyone who didn't bf. And again I'll make it clear I don't think anyone's been like that on this thread.

So I don't know if I'm unusual but I'm a person blowing off with no guilt attached.

Fair point Wob.

I've never come across the famous BF police myself, but accept that others, yourself included, may well have done.

Actually, when I first heard the term I thought it was quite funny.

What an interesting article Emkana, and I think this thread has generally been a great discussion with no insult hurling veiled or otherwise.... BUT NOW I'M HERE....Muhahaha!
Only Joking. (Honest)

I believe I may have referred to what I know as "the breastfeeding police" (well, yes, I know, it was a certain police force) in another thread. Some people thought I was out of line, but so was that thread, and the others ones I had read in order for me to see the red mist! I feel this thread however is genuine, and has had some genuine and interesting contributions.

In answer to your question therefore, Emkana, it was the ONLY feeding method discussed at Antenatal, the ONLY thing discussed at the Maternity ward, and when after 6 days of starving my boy, I made the decision to bottle it (no pun intended). I was immediately ignored by all the midwives, and that was not paranoia. I came out of hospital just before Christmas with a respiratory infection which I think what brought on mastitis at New Year, and I was still very ill when I first met my HV. What did she say? Its not too late you know, I can give you tel no's for LLL etc. Argh!

Thats where I got the breastfeeding "police" from - that's my experience. That and reading certain postings on here and hearing about the one which likened formula feeding to feeding a baby dog food.

I think, like Wobblyknicks, I feel sad for the circumstances that led me to bottle feed, but I don't feel guilty for feeding my son.