Haiti - F*****g Nestle is at it already.

[foxytocin]

here now what can I do about it?

Read the links, bamboo.
Some of them explain what happens in disasters and catastrophes - women do wet nurse other babies, and in cultures where people are used to relying on community support from others, this happens a lot more easily than it might do in the UK.

But do go on, having 'your doubts' about other people's perception of their 'civic duty' - but please consider if watching the news and reading the papers gives you a greater insight into this than the decades of experience of the NGOs who have worked in countless disaster situations....and who know from this experience what happens when corporations like Nestle are permitted to send product into disaster zones.

Tiktok,

I am relieved that this formula donation is going to be carefully controlled by the big charities you mentioned.

im not sure what links you mean, i must have missed those.

im no bfing expert, i don't know what women do in other cultures. i can only go by what i have seen on the news and all i have seen so far is everyone for themselves, looting, fighting etc.

Many links

This was discussed in a BF group I was in, this week. Thankfully, apparently Haiti has a strong BF culture (BF to 5, I think) - so the local aid agencies will be getting orphan's grans or aunts to relactate for them.

People really just don't get how unsafe formula is, when families don't have clean water.

Whats the problem? Nestle are providing bottled water and food for people who urgently need it not only formula, do you guys what that to stop because you dont like Nestle and their tactics? It does not matter where the food and water come from and tbh the reciever of it wont give a dame, just that they are satisfying a basic human need.

As Tiktok i think has said that feeding of infants in disastours would have been already thought out before

"i can only go by what i have seen on the news and all i have seen so far is everyone for themselves, looting, fighting etc."

This would be hilarious if it wasn't such a serious situation.

From WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN ON THE NEWS, you are assuming that the whole of Haiti is reduced to "everyone for themselves"?

And on the basis of this in-depth assessment, you're going to cheer on the dumping of infant formula into a situation where it is known (by experts, whose experience doesn't just come from sitting on their arse watching TV) to cause harm?

Seriously, wtf is wrong with you?

thanks for those, too tired to take too much info in from them. the one i read was about refugee camps in war zones which isn't the same as a sudden catastrophe like Haiti is experiencing.

im not sure what they are doing with orphans in Haiti but i would imagine they will be taken to orphanages.

i still think formula donations are better than nothing and will be gratefully received.

I am in 2 minds about this. I think that the fact they are donating food, liquid meal supplements and water is great, fair play to them, as long as these things are aimed at adults. Nestly have a huge variety of 'adult' food that won't spoil in heat and will be sorely needed.

WRT the formula, then as long as it is distributed via careful control through charities then again that is great, and I am sure it will be needed for places such as the orphanages etc where there will be more children than BFing mothers can help.

However, I very much doubt this will be the case.

But it has been shown in previous disasters that more babies die because of the distribution of formula. Feed the mothers and wetnurses (I'd do it in a flash if I had to), don't give formula. Unicef give training on this to those going into disaster areas, it is seen as important and not just as simple as getting babies fed. Breastfeeding in itself (without the added complications of dirty water / lack of sterile bottles) reduces diarrhoea, which can be life-threatening in itself.

Read the links - I did earlier today, very interesting.

skidoodle, there is nothing wrong with me.

i don't have time to read the papers in depth about the situation. i only catch 5min reports on BBC24, which happen to show desperate people fighting for what they can get.

bamboobutton, You haven't learnt anything from this thread, you still 'think' the same way as you have not chosen to read any of the links that will explain why blanket uncontrolled formula donation is so dangerous for the babies.

NQC, Glad to hear they have a good breastfeeding rates and long term nursing to. Isn't it easy to lactate if you have had a solid milk supply once ?

In that situation the formula should be the last resort if the baby is not able to get breastmilk from any source and should be carefully controlled.

Yes, from what I know, it's relatively easy to relactate if you've breastfed before. And these will be women who have breastfed.

The norm is apparently to get the grandmother to relactate.

I've heard before that formula donations should be gladly accepted - then used to feed up the mothers/wet nurses/whoever needs feeding. As long as they don't give it to babies, then the clean water issues aren't so bad (because the adults in question will probably be ok with dirty water).

Can you really relactate if you've breastfed in the past, even if it were years ago? I had no idea

I am not surprised by this but hope the aid co-ordinators stop them exploiting the situation. TBH in a country where the average income is $2 a day and there is 75% unemployment even without this catastrophe, their market is likely to be minuscule ...

What if you have not bf sucessfully could you relactate? Sorry just asking as i am quite interested really. Too late now for my dd 2.10

im too tired to read the links and absorb the info they contain.

i am not an expert on BFing.

i am not an expert on BFing in disaster situations.

and im not sticking around to be laughed at for not having the same knowledge as some people on here.

bamboobutton, No one has laughed at you. I simply pointed out, if you haven't had chance to read the evidence linked to in this thread, then it is hardly surprising if you still feel the same way...is it ?

Hope you get a good rest now/later. As for this debate and the links they will always be here if you want a mosey.

bamboo, when I joined MN I was bfing my dd1 but had no idea about anything Nestle was up to, I had heard about people who didn't buy any of their products and tbh I just thought they were weirdos who didn't like Kitkats

It is after reading some stuff through links and discussions on here that I really started finding out about the sort of mindbendingly awful things some large companies do, apparently without consequences, all around the world.

Seriously, when you have a minute and aren't knackered then read through some of the links, and that goes for anyone else reading this and not posting. The info is there to be read and to educate, if everyone already had that information then threads like this wouldn't exist.

bamboo- no one is laughing. there is a heck of a lot of info to take in about some of this stuff. a lot of it is hard to read and really upsetting and shocking. it is terribly frustrating to read all the misconceptions time and time again. it's taken me all day to plough through 'the politics of breastfeeding' but by god it has blown my mind.

I'm sure the difficulty of relactation varies, depending on many known factors and some unknown ones, too (women do vary in how much milk they make).

Some adoptive mothers, who have never had babies, have lactated for their adoptive children - I think this generally requires some drugs (prob domperidone?) and they don't tend to produce enough milk to do exclusive breastfeeding.

But it certainly is easier for a mother who has done a lot of breastfeeding, to relactate. I expect that more recent breastfeeding makes for easier relactation, all else being equal.

I know that wet nursing grandmothers are not that unusual in some non-British cultures (who have moved to my borough).

bamboo - no one has laughed at you.

You have embarrassed yourself, though....it's never wise to express an opinion based on a few mins watching the news, then say you are 'too tired' to read the several links offered, and add you have not changed your views.

Not knowing about an issue - there's no shame in that. No one can know everything! But it's always better to take up offers of information and to stay open rather than closed-minded, rather than stick rigidly to an uninformed opinion.

But laugh at you? Absolutely not.

Thanks for posting this- a very interesting issue. My first thought was that there's no problem with distributing formula if they do it appropriately, and also distribute clean water. However, I will read some of the links with interest- just wish I had time now.

One other thought- I admit to being very ignorant about Haiti, but what is the general level of education there? Surely families who are used to bfing, aware of the benefits of bfing and the problems of dirty water would only feed their babies formula as a last resort? Or are companies like nestle really marketing it aggressively, even when handed out for free?