for the BF experts around,,, is it possible that the soft pallat of the newborn can be deeper in the mouth

[ByThePowerOfGreyskull]

than the stretch of the mothers nipple?

therefore the latch looking ok but never getting the nipple to the soft bit so that it is more comfotable.

they can have a hgh arched palate

why do you ask?

a bit of info here

I know a bit [not a lot as not my field] about the mouth as am a SALT. The soft palate is quite far back anyway and from what I understand, the milk is squeezed out from behind the nipple by the palate [probably thealveolar ridge, directly behind teeth. If you've ever milked a cow or goat it beocmes clear what goes on.]

The nipple will streeeeetch a hell of a long way anyway.

How old is the baby?
Can you describe a little more what is going on?

Palatte shapes can certainly vary. One relatively common variation is called a "high arched palatte", and this can sometimes lead to difficulties getting good deep attachment. Anonther possiblity would be a bubble palatte. Have you looked at the roof of your LO's mouth?

Also, has anyone checked your baby for tongue tie?

Whilst it saddens me to say it, by far the most common reason I hear of for ongoing pain/nipple trauma when a latch has been declared 'perfect', and possibly by several people, is that in fact it is not necessarily as good as it could be and the skills of the person who has pronounced it so are not as good as they should be . Sometimes the adjustments that can make a big difference are very small, especially in a young baby with a small mouth. Larger nipples can also sometimes make getting things 'just so' more difficult, but usually not impossible to achieve comfortable feeding.

Can you tell us a little more and we may be able to help? Have you got damage/soreness to your nipple? What shape are they after feeds? How old is your baby?

not for me, but thanks ladies, my lovely friend is having trouble with her 2nd baby - due to ill health she wasn't able to try feeding with her first child and the BF expert at the hospital has been fiddling in his mouth (he is a week old) she has checked there is no tongue tie, the only thing she could suggest was that his pallatte was too far away for her short non stretchy nipples.

She has had a little success with the rugby ball hold but is resigning herself to expressing for him.. I just want to be able to point her for some pearls of wisdom..

Thanks... any more tips.. keep them coming

Give her the phone numbers for the helplines and strongly encourage her to ring them. What are the qualifications of the 'bf expert'? She might want to seek a 2nd opinion to see if a second set of eyes can see something different that could be changed. Are there any support groups near her?

If nipples are inverted, then sometimes the tissue around them does seem to stretch to enable them to 'come out' and once over the initial bit of bf then if there has been discomfort this sometimes reduces somewhat. Without seeing or speaking to your friend, though, it's really hard to know what might be relevant here.

not inverted.. just not stretchy..

am seeing her on friday so will find out more then.