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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

i saw a real life hooter-hider

316 replies

wahwah1270 · 12/07/2009 22:35

in an uber baby friendly south london pub today, the sort of place where no one bats an eyelid that i feed one year old dd, a woman put this ridiculous lime green hooter hider on to feed her young baby son. if she hadnt worn the hooter hider i doubt i'd have noticed her feeding. i sooooooooo wanted to tell her not to bother with it but bit my tongue. am i alone in not getting the hooter hider concept?

OP posts:
StarExpat · 27/07/2010 21:21

No I haven't sunbathed topless schulte, for reasons mentioned above. And for those same reasons, I'd be so horrified if I was forced to "get my boobs out". I wouldn't bf while out. No, cafes should not ever make them mandatory. That would be horrible. People who want to bf without a cover or with a cover should be regarded as equals and it should not be up to anyone, anywhere to "regulate" bf.
No woman should be forced or feel like they have to cover up whilst bf.
No woman should be forced or feel like they have to bf without a cover (be it a muslin or nursing cover or hider... Whatever - it's all the same concept).

Schulte · 27/07/2010 21:31

I wasn't trying to force anyone to get their boobs out, it was meant as an encouragement.

See I have absolutely nothing against muslins or pashminas or whatever else mums use to drape over their breasts. But a company making money out of breastfeeding women who don't feel comfortable getting their breasts out by coming up with a concept as ridiculous as the hooter hider, I don't know, it just makes me angry. And sad.

I also think it's society installing this self consciousness about their bodies in women and that makes me sad too: That there are so many women out there who are worried about people looking at their breasts when, as BoffinMum rightly points out, they have probably got much better things to do. Such as reading the paper or playing with their iphone.

I come from a place where people get naked in public a lot and I can't imagine the hooter hider concept would take off there. But I may be wrong.

StarExpat · 27/07/2010 21:56

Well, I'll never be comfortable doing so and thank goodness a company has made a nursing cover so that I can use it easily and still read or do whatever I want. Muslin pashmina...etc I was always adjusting and checking on ds and just a lot of faff. The nursing cover you just put it on and feed and you're just as free to do other stuff as if you're using no cover! brilliant.

I agree that it would be sad if women felt that they had to cover while bf.
I feel equally sad if women are made to feel silly or outcast if they do use a nursing cover.
To each their own.
And for those who do want a cover, thank goodness manufacturers have made available something to make this so much easier forthem

Leonine · 27/07/2010 22:15

Sorry to hear it makes you so sad and angry, Schulte. Obviously, that sadness and anger is far, far more valid and reasonable than the grief and rage of women who have suffered sexual abuse. Perhaps we should change the name of our planet from "earth" to "Schulte's world" to reflect the enormously important status of your opinion?

Or - and here's a thought - perhaps you could actually try and grow a little bit of empathy or understanding for people who have different experiences/needs/priorities from yours?

No? Hmm, didn't think so.

StarExpat · 27/07/2010 22:25

And before anyone says it - sexual abuse is not as unique of a circumstance as one might think. And everyone deals with it differently. And there are other reasons for using a cover as well. These companies have made it easier. So much easier than a muslin or pashmina.

You know what I find very sad?
The way people laugh at and ridicule those who make choices different to their own for bf (the OP), and others who find it necessary to (attempt to) dictate the way bf "should" be done. Thank goodness these people don't have control over whether or not these products are available.

porcamiseria · 27/07/2010 22:38

shulte

I think for many women they encourage, not discourage BF. embrace them!

and as for your comment: I also think it's society installing this self consciousness about their bodies in women and that makes me sad too

NOOOOOO!!!! its not bloody society, as we keep on saying we dont want to get our flopping boobs out, NO POLITICS, NO GENDER ISSUES

its not unreasonable!!!

SpeedyGonzalez · 28/07/2010 00:54

Yes, I've sunbathed topless - in private. I choose who views my boobs.

Boffiinmum - that's true, but I reckon they'd be so busy whingeing about the pain of breastfeeding that none of them would dare put a baby near them. Or they'd be so freaked out by the idea of having a child sucking from their breasts that they'd all run to the hills.

Misspaella · 28/07/2010 08:07

Schulte the Hooter Hider idea was "born" from a nursing mother. She wanted to bf in public but found a wiggly baby and blanket sometimes left her exposed hence the idea for a hooter hider. I would hardly call her a "company making money out of breastfeeding women who don't feel comfortable getting their breasts out".

I personally would not use one as a muslin did me fine in the first few months BUT I wouldn't ridicule anyone who wanted one.

I don't mind BF in public at all yet I wouldn't dare sunbathe topless either. Everyone has different limits on what they feel comfortable with.

StarExpat · 28/07/2010 14:37

Yes products improve all the time. This product is only an improvement (for some) to the muslin or pashmina.

Why do people assume that pregnant women and women with babies aren't intelligent enough to make their own choices.

Leonine · 28/07/2010 17:36

That's interesting information, Misspaella, thanks for that. And as you say, it gives the lie to the idea that the whole hooter hider thing is some big conspiracy dreamed up by multinationals in an attempt to subjugate and extort money from bf women.

I think there are two slightly different angles here - some people seem to be scared that the impetus for these kind of cover ups comes from those who find women bf-ing in public offensive, and want it to be stigmatised or turned into a taboo, thus diminishing the ease with which any woman can bf in public without covering up. If that were the case, then yes, there would be an issue - one to be tackled alongside the needs of women to have the choice to cover up if they so wish.

But, as Misspaella's post demonstrates, that's not actually the case anyway. The impetus is coming not from people offended by public bf-ing, but from women themselves who for whatever reason don't feel comfortable exposing, or risking exposing, certain parts of their bodies while in public. It's therefore a matter of personal choice, of women doing what makes them feel safe, comfortable and empowered. If some women feel those things when bf-ing in public without covering up, that's brilliant. If other women feel those things when using a hooter hider or bebe au lait or whatever, surely that's just as brilliant. And as others have repeatedly said, anything that helps mothers bf for longer has got to be a good thing.

I am personally very uncomfortable with the whole bf as some kind of test thing - ie if you're not "strong" and "confident" enough to do hardcore bf then you are somehow failing, if you have the temerity to be anxious about other people possibly looking at you, you are a wuss who should be excommunicated from the sisterhood, or if you are not adept enough to artfully arrange your clothing or muslin so as to render your bf totally unnoticable, you don't get your bf badge. WTF?

And there's a hint of totalitarianism in some people's thinking that because one approach or attitude is right for them, it must therefore be the only desirable approach or attitude full stop, and everyone else is somehow just misguided and should be "encouraged" to attain their marvellous state. How arrogant is that to assume that because something is right for you it should therefore be the default setting for everyone else to aspire to, too, without ever taking into account the vast differences of upbringing, experience and personality that exist between different women?

It makes me very sad (and not a little cynical) when people are determined not to listen to what other people are saying, to refuse to acknowledge the articulate, reasoned and hearfelt arguments put forward by so many of the posters on here. The sexual abuse issue, for example, is by no means the only one that matters here, but it is so important and the validity of it should surely be so glaringly obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that for someone to repeatedly ignore that aspect, even after more than one person has had the courage to bring it to their attention, reeks of an insensitivity and indifference to others that I find genuinely disturbing.

Being worried that hooter hiders are the thin end of the wedge in a campaign to illegitimise all public bf without covering up is being afraid of something that isn't actually, as we speak, happening, and will, in all probability, never happen.

Whereas sexual abuse, and its consequences, is eomething that is happening. Right now. Women not wanting to bare their bodies in public for any other reason is also something that is happening right now. Women facing a conflict between wanting to go out and about and still bf their baby and wanting to keep their bodies private, and seeking a solution to that conflict is something that is happening now.

Sadly, women who have something important to say being ignored by other women - who would probably, ironically, claim to be pro-women themselves - is also something that is happening right now. Ah well. It's not a perfect world, is it?

Thanks barkfox, StarExpat, porcamiseria and all you others for your brilliant posts - oh and Speedy too, nice to see you on here . And lol at SecretSquirrel!

Btw, I'm still bf DS, 2.9. I've never used one of these but maybe would have done if they'd been around when DS was younger. I did feel uncomfortable bf when out and about when he was very young - basically, I would only ever do it when out with a group of other bf mums, and even then I always felt a bit self-conscious. I never minded in front of other women or health professionals, but I really didn't feel comfortable with the idea of men other than my DH or doctors seeing my breats, even in the context of bf. The argument that probably no one's looking is totally spurious - it's that "probably" that's the problem. I didn't want to bf in front of friends' DPs/DHs; I didn't want to bf in front of the group of teenage boys who suddenly happened into the mummy central cafe we used to congregate in, the woman who posted much earlier about inadvertently flashing a 12 yr old male pupil of hers and his dad has my deepest sympathy! I usually made myself do it anyway if there was no way round it (residue of my own coping mechanisms re abuse issues, as in "got to tough it out"), but it caused me real anxiety, espeically as it took me quite a while to learn how to do it fairly discreetly; and DS was always a very alert, interested in everything baby who loved to pull musllins/blankets etc aside and have a good old nosy. Or even just pull them aside for the sake of it.

One nice thing about this thread tho is that it's brought back some happy memories of those early days. It was so lovely to have that closeness with him in a public place. And I think the hooter hider would be nice like that too, so that must be another point in its favour - giving you that extra intimacy when out and about.

Schulte · 28/07/2010 17:53

I don't get why you all think you have to shout at me and especially Leonine - was there any need for that? I am entitled to an opinion just like you are.

But such is the nature of Mumsnet. Please yourselves

StarExpat · 28/07/2010 19:27

Thank you, Leonine. Very well said. and yes, the closeness and intimacy that a nursing cover gave ds and I was lovely. Nice warm space free of distraction with a space to look at each other as much as we wanted and free flow of air while being able to not have anxiety.

Schulte no one yelled at you... Yes you are entitled to an opinion. And we are allowed to speak against it as well. I've heard your side and I do think it would be sad if women all felt that covering was essential. I just think it would be equally sad if women felt they couldn't use a cover if they choose.

Schulte · 28/07/2010 20:11

May I direct you to Leonine's post on Tue 22:15:20. I think that was unnecessary, rude and unfair.

I do think you should all go to a nudist beach, strip off all your clothes, jump in the cold water, let your boobs bob about and see how happy and liberated it will make you feel though

I'll go now, promised

StarExpat · 28/07/2010 20:14

Ok... That wasn't yelling. That was her opinion of what you had said. And... Your suggestion- not such an easy task for someone with a history of sexual abuse. I do think that is a bit narrow minded to assume that everyone would feel liberated and enjoy that.

barkfox · 28/07/2010 20:46

Schulte, I think it's possible/probable that feel you are being encouraging, and don't understand why you're coming across as a bit insensitive (and I don't want you to feel singled out, there are plenty of others on this thread who that applies to).

I mean that genuinely - I've posted about this before - sometimes a well intentioned 'exhorting' comment ('get your boobs out!') etc actually comes across as unwelcome pressure, and can really press the wrong buttons with women who have had sexually coercive experiences, and for whom control over how they expose/conceal their bodies is VERY important.

And as Leonine says, in her really excellent post, that pressure to BF in one very specific way can become a way of defining and judging women who BF.

The way I feel about my body and who sees it is SO much more complex than some misguided and timid bashfulness. And no, thank you, I don't need to go to a nudist beach, swim and let my 'boobs bob about' to feel 'happy and liberated'.

I will feel happy and liberated if I know that I can BF my son in the way that suits us best without fear of being judged, however we choose to do it.

Schulte · 28/07/2010 20:47

It was extremely rude and a personal attack that went well beyond what I had said. But as I said, nothing new on Mumsnet really.

I can't speak for people who have been sexually abused. I don't know if it would be good or bad for them to try and strip off in public. So my suggestion is obviously not directed at them.

But as I said, I am taking my hat because I have a film to watch!

StarExpat · 28/07/2010 20:56

Schulte there are many other situations and life experiences that would result in not feeling happy and liberated stripping down in your example...

"I wasn't directing it at them" - I have a long response to this but from this comment it is obvious that you are not open minded. lthough, you think you are just because you'd feel confident naked. this is my first

loopyloops · 28/07/2010 21:05

I have one. Now she's feeding less so I don't really use it but there are many situations where I would have felt I had to go elsewhere to feed DD if I hadn't used it. One example is big meal in restaurant with in-laws - sitting next to FIL and opposite GFIL. I think it's great and recommend to new mothers. Now she's older it's much easier to feed discreetly, but in the early days it was a godsend.

Anything that makes my life easier is a good thing.

Schulte · 28/07/2010 21:40

What have I done wrong now?

Find someone else to beat up will you?

porcamiseria · 29/07/2010 13:16

I AM NOT SHOUTING AT YOU SCHULTE!!!!

I think BF is such a bloody emotive topic. On MN it can feel like unless you BF until your kids hit puberty you are a BAD MOTHER!!!! before I did MN I thought my 6 months was pretty good going!!!

But where people get a bit annoyed is the assumption that they cover up becuase "society makes them ashamed of BF". Fucking hell, its like yet another thing to feel bad about! so you just hit a nerve that's all. people sometimes dont want other people to see their tits. thats all there is to it!!!

A friend of a friend of a friend nearly gave up BF, I emailed friend 1 the link to the cover up. he emailed it to his GF, who bought it for her sister! so thanks to this thread hopefully another Mum will feel more comfortable about BF. whilst I am in no way a BF militant, I really hope this Mum will do it in comfort for a bit longer now

BoffinMum · 29/07/2010 14:02

Chill Schulte. I don't think they are shouting at you.

I think a factor in all this is how utterly uptight English people are about bodies a lot of the time. I can't see this debate happening in Germany at all, can you?

StarExpat · 29/07/2010 14:13

Hopefully not. Hopefully they would care as little about someone wishing to cover for whatever reason as they would someone feeding completely topless or partially covered. I have a good friend in Germany. She's German. She used a bebe au lait nursing cover. She has history of sexual abuse. She found this to be a wonderful product. She went out and fed alongside those without covers. According to her, no one cared. She got an ocassional compliment on it but that's it. And she never had to explain her reasons for using it to anyone. It's her choice. Glad she doesn't live near the OP.

BoffinMum · 29/07/2010 14:25

Um, that's a sample of one.

StarExpat · 29/07/2010 14:34

Yes it is. I'm just glad that she had a good experience bfing. In a country where people would not typically use a cover as she did

I totally respect those who don't feel a need or desire to use a cover. I also respect those who do. Just let people do what makes them comfortable when bf as long as it's not harming the baby or themselves.

porcamiseria · 29/07/2010 15:36

I am not sure about this German sterotype that they are all hang-it-out nudies, my German friends are bemused by it!!!!

but thanks Boffin for making us feel likes prudes, a-fucking-gain

Yes listen up: rape and abuse victims, you are just repressed Brits OK????

ugh

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