bf 15 mths on. its constant. i'm so fed up with it. i resent it but ds dairy intolerant. help please

[kalo12]

my ds is dairy intolerant and hardly eats and is on lowest centile for weight. i was prepared to bf for the long haul but i'm so fed up with it.

he bfs constantly, i try don't offer don't refuse but he demands it all the time. screams if i don't give in. its literally 10 - 15 times a day, plus every hour - hour and a half at night. from about 3 am its every twenty minutes.

been trying ncss for months, the ppo is impossible, he screams. i have to prize my nipple out of his mouth as he is clamped on with all his teeth.

am starting to feel so angry, i would be happy with a couple of times a day and even night, but can't seem to reduce it.

so thinking only option is cold turkey, but as he is df don't want to withhold important nutrients and also don't want him to be emotionally fraught but just at my wits end now.

dh works every eve and weekends so on my own all the time.

advice please

All I can say is hats off to your ladies who can cope with so little sleep.

I would go insane. Quite literally.

CoteDAzur,
"Says me and anyone else (I would hope) with the sense to know that a normal child of 15 months has no physical need to feed through the night."

Yes, a normal child of 15 months has a physical need to feed through the night. This might be because the child is hungry, cold, ill, thirsty, need comfort etc. All can be filled by breastfeeding.

You were very direct in your posts demanding that the OP should stop night feeds and increase solids .

This is not supportive, noone knows what the OP wants to do except her. For all we know she might just be having a rant and be happy to continue. That is for her to decide.

Plus dropping night feeds may or may not work, her DS may or may not increase solids. In the worst case scenerio, the child might refuse solids and just lose weight.

Breastfeeding is so much more than calories.

After 4 months of night feeds, I had to stop driving because I was literally hallucinating - kept seeing people jumping in front of the car.

Then we cut out night feeds and DD was sleeping through the night by 3rd night. Happy baby, happy parents.

CoteDAzur, That must of been very frightening to be suffering so badly from lack of sleep. I can see how you felt cutting out night feeds was the best decision for you. However this does not follow that the OP feels the same way nor that quiting the feeds is the best thing for her DS and her. She might try co-sleeping or limited feeds as an alternative solution.

Babieseverywhere - "Yes, a normal child of 15 months has a physical need to feed through the night."

No, he doesn't. His stomach is big enough to eat enough to last him through the night. There is no need. There is habit.

"This might be because the child is hungry, cold, ill, thirsty, need comfort etc."

All needs aside from hunger can be filled through other means than sticking a boob into his mouth. Nothing wrong with hugs, kisses, giving him an extra blanket (if he is cold) etc. Imho, as babies become toddlers, it is entirely normal for their mums to comfort them in different ways than

As for the rest of your post: I read the OP as having a strong wish to stop night feeds and advised accordingly. You may have seen a different need and are free to give your advice which might be different.

If one day I want someone to tell me what to say, I will come and find you, no worries. Until then - you post your way, and I will post mine. Thank you.

Actually, OP sounds in a much worse place than I ever was. I was just sleep deprived. She is "fed up", starting to "feel so angry", at her "wits' end" and "resenting it".

Yes, there are many ways to night parent, cuddles, kisses, blanket and breastfeeding are all ways to comfort a child at night. And all of these methods will cause the mother to be awake at night and be tired and fed up during the day.

It is up to the OP to decide how she will night parent in the way best suited to her and her DS needs. I have no idea how or what would be best for her, that is her choice to make.

I was having similar demands from my DD too, day and night, I was completly exhausted and also resenting bf. I have managed to get it down to just a feed in the morning now (most days). DD is 21 months.

Everytime DD wanted boob, I gave her the option of 'milk in a cup' and said no to boob. She would refuse at first and demand boob but eventually take the cup. Sometimes she would just have 1 ounce sometiems 5 or 6.

The daytime was much easier than the night. I feel much less exhausted now and actually enjoy the morning 'boob' feed.

I think that you have to find a way that is right for you and your child, whether that be stopping alltogether or slowly cutting it down . BTW my DD didn't eat more food when she started having less milk!

Sometimes children bf alot when they are feeling unwell or teething, as it can soothe the pain. Some also bf alot during growth spurts or if they are thirsty (may be worth tyring to offer frequents drinks of water).

Babieseverywhere - I agree, bf/milk is so much more than just calories.
Good luck!

thank you all so much for your posts. They are really helpful.

just to clarify my situation, i am really in the camp of wouldn't like to cry it out, or pput stress on my ds emotionally by going cold turkey. i supposee my ideal would be to cut down to just a morning and evening feed in the day, possibly a couple more if ill, teething, in a tizz, then at night i would be happy with one, two or even three feeds.

but i have tried many techniques for cutting down the feeds, and it doesn't seem to work, so i wondered what else i could try, maybe cold turkey etc. and what was people's opinion on that, and experience of similar situations.

we already co sleep btw and there is no way he would go in a cot now, so am maybe thinking once he goes to his own bed things might improve.

i suppose my ideal is if i had twenty or so mumsnetters say 'oh my lo bf this much at 15 months then by 19 months they just gave it up but i don't think thats going to happen.

for those that don't bf how much milk does your lo have during the day/night?

if i night weaned, do you think he would eat more solids during the day? I know from about 3am he is starving and i don't seem to have any more milk left, sometimes my dh takes him for his breakfast at about 5.30 am and he is starving but as soon as i appear he just wants to bf again.

what age do they stop?

thanks again for all your replies, all of them combine to help me decide the best tack.

i suppose because he was dairy intolerant and a food refusenik i was happy to feed him up as much as possible and noww i have created this habit which is becoming unmanageable.

I sincerely doubt he needs to nourishment every hour. Have you tried giving him a dummy? Maybe he just wants to suck.

kalo, at 15 months my DS was very much as you describe, with the exception that he was a phenomenal eater of solids and still utterly welded to the boob, so the breastfeeding may not be the root of the problem, though it could equally be.

It has improved, but rather slowly. I made various half-hearted attempts to nightwean, but only eventually managed it when DS was nearly three and a half. Then it was ridiculously easy, (I said a fierce no at 3am two nights running) but it was a long time to wait.

I really don't have any magic solutions for you, sorry but just to say that IME this was very very much the worst age for almost everything, especially total boobaholism and insane tiredness. Even if you did nothing at all, it would get better from here on in (IME at least).

Actually, now I think of it, one thing I did do quite early on which helped get control of the BFing in the daytime was I would always do it but on my terms, which were I sat where I wanted on the sofa and read my book whilst feeding. If he grabbed my book or clothes or fidgeted, I ended the feed. It made me feel better about the BF too because I got a sit down and a read of my book.

if i night weaned, do you think he would eat more solids during the day?
No way of knowing how your child will react. He might want more milk or more solids during the day, he might not increase anything.

I know from about 3am he is starving and i don't seem to have any more milk left
You breasts never empty, as long as your son nurses he will get milk. He might be hungry at 3am or he might need the comfort of nursing.

but as soon as i appear he just wants to bf again.
This suggests that he is nursing for comfort rather than nutrients, however this does not follow that the nurse is not needed any less.

what age do they stop?
Varies child to child.
Many children self wean between 3 and 4 years old. But with encouragment it could be earlier.

I managed to night wean my daughter at 16 months and still day nurse her at 2.8 years old. My DS I am still nursing day and night but he is only 8 months old.

HTH

You Your breasts never empty

kalo - I know how hard it is to try to balance everything with a dairy intolerent ds.

Mine developed an intolerence when he was about 22 months IIRC. I found the conflict between knowing that breastmilk was the best thing for him, and the constant demand to feed very confusing. It is hard to know what to do for the best.

Do you eat dairy? Could he be upset by that? I could imagine a child with a sore/grumbly tummy might not want to eat and prefer to nurse all the time for comfort.

CoteDAzur - We have discussed this on previous threads. You seem to have an unwillingness to accept that a child still has a need (whether nutritionally or for comfort) to breastfeed beyond whatever age it is you have set in your mind. Perhaps your intention is to be supportive, but that sure isn't the way it comes over.

mawbroon, That is very interesting that your little one developed a dairy intolerance as a toddler, do you know what triggered it ? Hope things are under control as much as your diet and his reactions go.

Babies, he had a dreadful run of several illnesses, one after the other, the last of which was a terrible D&V which left him intolerent.

Looking back, he was slightly intolerent following a previous D&V about six months before, but I hadn't realised.

He is ok on goats' milk/cheese, so we are not too restricted at home and we have got to the point where he can have cows stuff if we are out and about without any ill effect. I have found that it is a build up over several days that causes him to get a sore tummy and soft/runny poo.

I was so glad to still be breastfeeding when he developed it.

Poor DS being so poorly.

I can understand why you are pleased to be still breastfeeding. You know you have a good source of 'non-dairy' calcium on tap as such

Do you have to be strict with your diet too ?

Oh it was yonks ago, he is 3.6yo now!

My diet doesn't make any difference to him which is great. He is also allergic to egg, and I can eat that fine as well. We are quite lucky on the grand scale of things when I read about how allergic some other dcs are.

15 months is such a classic age for this sort of "high neediness" or whatever you want to call it. I remember having frequent night waking to feed with dd at this age and wondering if it would ever end. Then, without my doing anything different it did, and fairly abruptly -suddenly she would settle with just a cuddle, and then gradually woke less.

On the co-sleeping, I wonder if you've considered the option of a bedside cot right up alongside your mattress? Sometimes if you can get just an arm's length of difference between the 2 of you it can help to space out those nighttime requests a little, even if she only stays in it for part of the night. Would your dh/dp be able to help at night? Would she settle for him, even some of the time? What about if she were taken to a different room?

Have you read Kellymom on "velcro children"?

Oh dear lord. You have my sympathy. I was going to come on here today and ask the same thing, except my baby is only 6-1/2 months old and not yet on solids (plan to do BLW in a week or so when I move from Asia to London - can't deal with it right now!)

I had an awful night. Funnily enough I was awake and insomniac more than my baby.

I feed her all the time. I feed her to shut her up and when she's hungry. At 6-1/2 months it's supposed to have settled down a bit, but it's almost still like the newborn phase. My tits feel pummeled and bruised with the constant pawing and

I LOVE LOVE LOVE breastfeeding 95 percent of the time. I'm so glad I made it so far after a rocky start and a low weight (and still low centile) early baby. I LOVE co-sleeping with her as well. Makes the 2 or 3 night feeds mcuh easier and I love looking at her in the early hours.

But 5 pct of the time I feel like a sow, frustrated that I'm feeding her on and off 12 hours out of 24 and STILL she's not fat! I also feel I will never have sex again. I love my husband but baulk at cuddles and kisses.

All in all, I'm happy with the bargain I made, but boy is it tough. Bloody tough. I'm concerned it will be like this for months and months. I'm not sure how I feel b/feeding for as long as she'll self wean. Today, right now, I want to get her on cow's milk as soon as is good for her. On a good day, I feel I can continue (DH has other ideas)

Doesn't help all this constant contact (I also babywear) in the tropical heat. Bring on London's cold weather.

Sorry, ranted off. Just feel sore back, comedy knockers, hot, bothered -- even seeing and hearing things at times (like my baby crying when I'm in the shower, things at the periphery of my vision)

mawbroon - Sorry I don't remember you from previous threads. But I don't appreciate this:

"You seem to have an unwillingness to accept that a child still has a need (whether nutritionally or for comfort) to breastfeed beyond whatever age"

My opinion is different than yours, which is not unreasonable. It doesn't mean I'm "unwilling to accept" anything. People can have different views on things. Can you understand that?

I feel the needs of a child can be met in other ways than breastfeeding, especially in the middle of the night. As he grows, his needs and ways to meet them also evolve - breastfeeding is perhaps the only way to comfort a baby, but there are other ways to comfort a child. I believe it is important to let the child grow and develop in this way.

In short, we give our different viewpoints here. If OP wants to breastfeed in the night for another year or two, she can listen to you. If she would rather have him sleep through some day soon, she can listen to me.

CoteDAzur that assumes that stopping feeds will somehow make him sleep through at night. Maybe you don't mean things to sound the way they do but your last post sounds a bit "my way is the best and only way to solve your problem". While your method may have worked for you it does not guarantee that it will work for all babies - some are genuinely higher need than others and only the OP knows her baby.

We can all only speak from our own experience. My experience was a very clingy toddler who needed lots of cuddles and milk at night. "velcro baby" is actually a very good description! I know that any other distraction techniques would not have worked for him and would have been quite distressing for all of us. I found the easiest thing was just to keep meeting his needs and as he grew he felt secure enough to move away in his own time. He did grow out of it which is the good news! I do remember the 2 hourly night feeds at that age and it was v difficult but being the lazy beast that I am there was no way I was going to get out of bed to distract him and lose any more sleep than I had to!

We did find that giving him what he wanted to eat during the day - little and often - helped a lot with the feeds. Even if it was just fruit or breadsticks or whatever - and juice to drink if he wouldn't take water. If he would only eat porridge at dinner time then so be it! Kalo, maybe you could stockpile a few of his favourite foods and have them at the ready at his usual milk times?

CoteDAzur, We all have opinions.
The difference is I respect your opinion. I respect that your child needed dummies to settle her at night until she was three and then she gave them up cold turkey with no fuss (good on her).

In contrast, you are telling the OP (and mothers who are in the same situation) that they are wrong to nurse their babies at night and they don't need to nurse, that their breasts will empty and not have milk after several hours of nursing (untrue) and that their babies will get as much comfort from a dummy (not true)

It is just the way your posts read. I suggest that you consider that other mothers can do something different than you and it might work for their children and maybe take this fact into consideration when you post