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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Lactivism on R4

76 replies

FaintlyMacabre · 28/04/2009 08:07

The Today programme have just said they will be doing a bit on lactivism. Will probably be on before 8:30, but definitely before 9. Might be worth a listen?

OP posts:
Grendle · 28/04/2009 08:36

Anyone listening? Has it been on yet? Only just saw this message

Original poster
FaintlyMacabre · 28/04/2009 08:39

Not been on yet- hope I didn't imagine it!

OP posts:
MamacitaGordita · 28/04/2009 08:53

Am listening but hasn't been on yet...

MamacitaGordita · 28/04/2009 08:55

Ah here we go

MamacitaGordita · 28/04/2009 08:58
foxytocin · 28/04/2009 08:59

Someone needs to tell Zoe Williams that babies who are bf from poor working class areas also show an decrease in illness, blah blah

aurorec · 28/04/2009 09:01

Why did Zoe Williams say the scientific evidence wasn't there?
And I so wish Morgan would have once and for all explained that children CAN'T PHYSICALLY Bf past a certain age. That would stop all the 'bitty' snark.

MamacitaGordita · 28/04/2009 09:03

Not very satisfactory, that piece. And the lactivist lady had a valid point in asking whether she had been invited on to discuss 'still' bf her child or the article in question. Feeling a bit glum generally on the politics of bf after some of the threads on here and now this snipet...

fishie · 28/04/2009 09:04

zoe williams... what a bizarre way to make a living, spouting crap opinions for money.

tiktok · 28/04/2009 09:05

How lucky they managed to get that well-known child health expert and epidemiologist Zoe Williams on to judge the research on infant feeding and find that it fails to account for social factors.

Oh, sorry.....she's not a well-known child health expert or epidemiologist. She's a columnist. That explains why she talked such a lot of bollocks.

Shocking interview, almost derailed by the interviewer's prurient insistence on asking about the other speaker's breastfeeding experience.

MamaHobgoblin · 28/04/2009 09:07

Oh god. I was trying to write an email to the programme but gave up in disgust (and because my 14m old was twanging the keyboard). Why do they always try to steer the discussion onto what the media see as the 'freakshow' aspects of breastfeeding? I almost wish the 'lactavist' woman hadn't mentioned to the researchers that she was bf-ing a 4 year old (please don't slam me for this - goes without saying that I think that's grand and fine and dandy!) because it made her an easy target for some jibes about when she was going to stop. And that wasn't the subject up for debate!

Zoe Williams was being irritating (she does it so well) but I suspect that she and the other woman wouldn't have had much to argue about in a pub, and that it was yet another false divide between two guests on the Today Prog. There wasn't that much between them! And why were these two women - neither of them medically qualified - brought in to speak about something that should have been addressed by scientists? We had one on earlier, so why didn't they grill him instead?

Oh, and if you were watching the studio webcam, you'll see that Ms Williams was displaying an impressive bum cleavage as she leant forward, but that's neither nor there...

aurorec · 28/04/2009 09:09

Hated the way Zoe Williams dismissed the issue of BFing in public and shut down the conversation by reducing the whole thing to 'opinions'.
I thought they were invited to debate facts?

tiktok · 28/04/2009 09:09

Just to make it clear for lurkers: much infant feeding research does control for social factors.

Guess what? It still emerges that formula feeding babies have greater risks of a range of illness, and as the doctor said in the lead up to the interviews (and I'm pleased they got him on) a higher risk of cot death.

StealthPolarBear · 28/04/2009 09:10

another thread on this here

yes I was quite amazed about the confounding factors for the health benefits of bf too - fancy, I bet no-one has ever thought of that or accounted for them before!
Didn't realise this Zoe was famous - can I email her?

StealthPolarBear · 28/04/2009 09:11

and if anyone asks well how can they - the same as they do for smoking, diet, hundreds of things. But you don't get the sceptics with those, just breastfeeding

foxytocin · 28/04/2009 09:13

That is why TT I was banging my head. Morgan should know that. I guess she is not media savvy like Zoe which made her not come out so well in this.

tiktok · 28/04/2009 09:16

My prediction: Zoe Williams will use her column in the future to describe the wrath of the breastfeeding lobby....

The lactivist speaker was right to point out that breastfeeding women are pressured in many ways.

BUT - The 'lactophobia' she quoted is not something to bring up in a 2 minute interview - just as those stupid questions about her own bf, it threatens to derail. People simply do not believe that women can be abused and insulted for breastfeeding and you won't convince them in a few seconds. In fact, you risk them disbelieving you and thinking you are a loon.

Instead, keep away from the reportage of the extreme, and stick to the non-sensational: most women want to breastfeed and of those who stop before six weeks, nine out of 10 of them wished they could have continued but are failed in the support and information they need.

MamaHobgoblin · 28/04/2009 09:18

Oh, I did re-compose my email and sent it off, complaining about the level of debate and asking why nobody who was scientifically qualified had been brought on to add some substance to the debate.

Hadeda · 28/04/2009 09:20

I found the whole interview depressing. I missed the very beginning when they gave each person's qualifications - so was wondering what evidence there is "breast is only best if you're middle class". I'm no expert on anything to do with this, I'm just a mom who chose to bf. Hearing something like this that suggests the benefits are only for middle class women would, before my DD was born, have made me wonder whether the NHS breast is best line was right. I would probably (I hope) have looked into it more, and then hopefully seen that the interview was rubbish. But it's really, really not helpful.

And of course Sarah Montague had to do the interview because Edward Stourton was already embarassed at having to mention the words "breast feeding" when doing the earlier "teaser", it's such an off colour topic...
Grrrr

Really. Utterly. Depressing.

mrsbaldwin · 28/04/2009 09:20

Aha - I posted a thread on this too - but to the In The News column. You're all discussing it over here instead!

Here's the link to my post:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/746412-Breastfeeding-debate-on-the-Today-programme?msgid=15244710

I am out waving a flag for the Zoe Williams corner (and you'll see I also posted a link to the original article in an American magazine, which will annoy those in the other corner no end but which I think is great).

And before anyone suggests I am a horrible person I am still doggedly, determinedly BF-ing (even though I think its pants) - so I have some moral high ground too!!

tiktok · 28/04/2009 09:21

MamaHobGoblin: they had a prof from the Royal College of Child Health who gave a sober and supportive account and I think even mentioned the good quality of the research. He was on the phone before the interviews ie a phoned interview, later edited.

Trouble was, they bring ZW on who just said 'breastfeeding research doesn't take into account social factors yadda yadda yadda'.

tiktok · 28/04/2009 09:22

MrsBaldwin - which bits of Zoe Williams did you think were good?

aurorec · 28/04/2009 09:22

Sad though I enjoy Zoe Williams' column. I didn't think she was like that.

MamaHobgoblin · 28/04/2009 09:23

Yes, I heard him - he was fine. Yes, I think he did talk about the quality of the research. Doubly depressing how he then wasn't referenced at all in the subsequent 'debate'!

Oh, I give up. It's obvious that they were never going to give the topic its due when they stuck it in the 'silly slot' at the end!

MamaHobgoblin · 28/04/2009 09:26

You know, I know it's off the topic in hand, but what rankles with me the most is still the puerility of Ed Stourton's comments earlier, about 'breastfeeding at breakfastime' (and Sarah Montague's silly simpering after that, telling him not to be scared. I suppose she was possibly trying to redress it a bit). I really respect Ed Stourton, he's one of my favourite R4 current affairs presenters.

Silly old fart.