Lactivism on R4

[FaintlyMacabre]

The Today programme have just said they will be doing a bit on lactivism. Will probably be on before 8:30, but definitely before 9. Might be worth a listen?

i have no idea how Zoe Williams can say that BF only benefits the middle class. WTF are middle class people a different species?

mrsbaldwin those articles in your other thread are so terribly depressing. what is average maternity leave in US, abuot 6 weeks? it is an outrage.

hopefully i am a different species to zoe.

Luckily the two women kept talking over each other so I couldn't really hear what they were saying. al rather shrill IMO. Didn't do women much of a service, let alone bfers.

foxy - Zoe Williams was being ironic about 'breast is best' and the middle class. She acknowledged the slogan (which I wish we could formally kill off....it only caught on 'cos of alliteration and rhyming!), but her point was it's only 'worked' with the middle class who get themselves into a tizzy about breastfeeding because they don't want to be seen as doing working class things like formula feeding.

Tikok - I agree. I think ZW did have a point about breastfeeders often (not always!) being more middle-class and also taken up for longer by older women (yes, we know this is a sweeping generalisation) but she ran with it with a lot of style and no substance, rather like one of her riffs in her column. It wasn't the place for that sort of self-indulgence.

AH, i guess then that Morgan's comeback should have been:

'No breast is normal.' then it really could have moved towards talking about the risks of FF as the blurb seemed to mention the piece was supposed to be about.

I missed what the prof said.

Mrs baldwin I don't think there is a 'moral high ground' in this debate.

Re the original article- I had read it a while ago and found it rather unconvincing. The author doesn't cite any specific sources or figures- it seemed a but peevish to me. I'd rather take my evidence from the WHO or the American Pediatric Association quite frankly.

And I found it odd that she dismissed the gastroenteritis risks so breezily- in her words something like 'the odd diarrhea and vomiting here and there'. Having a nephew prone to the illness (and his father for that matter) whilst not 'fatal like it is in the 3rd world' (again in her words) it's a debilitating and painful disease to be prone to. Not to mention messy...

Grrr - what a crappy interview. 8.55 is usually mayhem in this house with DD2 about to go to the childminders, so I half-listened as I expect many people do at that time.

What came across was a 'snapshot' of 2 points (because you can't tell who's talking when they all talk across each other and no-one has a voice you recognise):

1. We're told that breast is best but actually there are no health benefits, it's all down to the fact that middle class mums breastfeed and working class mums don't, and middle class mums have healthier children.
2. The breastfeeding expert they had on failed to make her point, was ridiculed for feeding her 4 year old and whined about being victimised as a breastfeeder

especially when you think how many other people will have half-listened at that time in the morning.

And this in a week where the equality bill will not only be voluntary, but only protect breastfeeding rights (in as much as a voluntary bill can 'protect' anything) up to 6 months (because hey, everyone knows that after that it's only for the mother don't they?!?). This strikes me as one of the wierdest pieces of legislation (or non-legislation) ever - either breastfeeding is good and should be protected (IMHO a no-brainer), or it's not, but to protect it only for babies under 6 months is just plain wierd!

Morgan did say breast is normal, right when she was trying to get the interview back on track after the Little Britain comment.

The reason it was on so late, by the way, was because Morgan was stuck in traffic as the car didn't show up for her until half 6 (to bring her from Bedfordshire!) so she didn't get into the studio till quarter to!

Morgan did say breast is normal, right when she was trying to get the interview back on track after the Little Britain comment.

The reason it was on so late, by the way, was because Morgan was stuck in traffic as the car didn't show up for her until half 6 (to bring her from Bedfordshire!) so she didn't get into the studio till quarter to!

Oops, sorry! Am on iPhone, plus dodgy connection!

I also half-heard this but managed to get the tone of it - they basically got Zoe Williams in to debate it as she writes a column about being a mum, in which she puts down quite a lot of other parenting activities as well. She, as has been pointed out, has no qualifications to advise on this matter than any other non-scientist mum and is well known for failing to do her homework on statistics. I used to think she was funny but now she's getting on my nerves.

Raisingrrl: I meant say it right at the star after Sarah M. gave her little prelude. not later when it was already shrill.

Oh I knew you MN lot would cheer me up! Esp tiktoks comment on ZW the child health expert/epidemiologist... Sadly the parts of bf that should be discussed (the need for info and support to enable those 9/10 who wish to continue to do so) are just deemed to dry and not polemic enough to merit media time. Sad really.

yes, she did try to say breast is normal but by then she had been effectively stereotyped

By the way Mrsbaldwin why are you still breastfeeding 'doggedly' if you think it's pants?
You seem to believe (as per the article you posted on the other thread to annoy the other corner but that you think is great) that BF doesn't actually have medical advantages that justify its practice.

So why put yourself through something you don't like?

when's the weaning one on - am expecting the same high quality journalism

Yes SPB am keeping an ear out for that one too, to put the cap on my morning of Radio 4 programming!

How do we comment on it then? I can't see anything on the BBC website...

Aurorec - I might flippantly respond 'so I can come on MN and moan about it'

BF being 'pants' - the whole experience of it I mean ... glued to the sofa, breastpumps, feeding bras (can't wait to burn mine) etc. I am the exact opposite of an earth mother.

So why am I continuing to do it? Good question - the truth is something like 'so no-one can say I didn't make an effort'. I've set a timetable in my head for when I can stop and let me tell you, I'm counting the hours!

Let me also say this - I'm really looking forward to graduating to the weaning thread (imagines waving goodbye to BF thread). I've been reading an Annabel Karmel book someone gave me in joyous anticipation.

mrsb - please don't continue to bf if the only reason is what you think other people are thinking about you! No-one should live like that. If you know the facts and genuinely don't think it's worth doing then don't do it!

Missed this, as I was taking the DCs to school. Sounds like it was a Good Thing, as my blood pressure wouldn't take it.

And yes, it was ridiculous to have Ed Stourton embarrassed about it earlier in the show - bloody hell, they discuss much more distressing (IMO) subjects with no problem (rape, murder, wars...) and in more detail than I sometimes want my DCs to hear but come over all giggly when breasts are mentioned! Grow up FFS!

Stealth Polar Bear - you are of course right! I am being much too middle class!