Ok I've decided not to b/f

[bobbyswish]

What happens to your milk/boobs in the aftermath of childbirth if you go straight to bottles? And do you give a bottle feed straight away the same as you would with b/f?

i understand the anxiety (my ds is vaccinated). but not vaccinating increases the risk of diseases spreading, so your own children and other people can catch those diseases. if early breastfeeding protected against a whole host of diseases then we wouldn't have needed vaccinations, the diseases wouldn't exist.

i was breast feed but still have had measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, meningitis.

I bf'ed DS for a week. He and I both had problems. The days after I decided to bottle feed, I woke up and my boobs were back to pre pg normality. On the other hand, I have a friend whose baby died a few days after he was born. Several months later she is still leaking, and her obgyn won't give her de-lactating meds.

I totally agree with Starlight on this.

I don't think the issue here is feeding choice, life with a newborn is hard work and unpredictable however you feed, though to my mind breastfeeding does offer some comfort in knowing that you don't have to worry about sterilising/making up bottles and the risks posed if this isn't done correctly.

I know a bit about engorgement and I second the savoy cabbage leaves. It sounds strange and I did feel a bit peculiar the first time I wandered around the house with green leaves protruding from my bra , but it really works.

Apparently it is scientifically proven. Some enzyme or other.... and it does have to be savoy cabbage.

Good luck.

Can I just step in again and say that a woman has asked for advice here not our opinions on her feeding method.

Whilst I do agree that sometimes it can be seen as though Tiktok and the other BF supporters trying to persuade someone, they are just trying to offer advice on another point of view and from what I've seen they are just tryng to dispell the myths that BF will make you depressed etc, which is fair enough at the end of the day we should be well informed before jumping in and Tiktok is a great help with this kind of stuff to many MNers so please don't take her advice as bullying tactics or whatever some people seem to think. I have crossed swords with her on several occassions on the past normally about this subject then I realised she was just trying to tell me the facts even if it was like banging her head off a brick wall she kept going.

At the end of the day regardless of what anyone thinks it is a personal choice and no one can make it for you. So live an let live.

I find it absolutely astonishing that people who have no background knowledge of my psychological issues, not to mention no thorough knowledge of psychiatry or psychotherapy, can feel it morally acceptable to coerce (and however much you deny it, tiktok etc, you all clearly have an agenda) others to do something that may be detrimental to another person or family.

To the rest of you, thank you for your very helpful suggestions and experiences. Cabbage leaves are on the shopping list!

bobbyswish, I can't speak for other people, but as you mention me specifically, I think I have to clarify:

I am not interested in coercing people in general or you in particular - I agree with you it is not acceptable and I don't do it, and I haven't done it here.

My 'agenda' (and my training) is to enable women to come to an informed decision about infant feeding, and a decision that supports them in their parenting and makes them feel confident and happy.

My posts on this thread were

• a response to a request to say what the risks of a pill to stop milk were
• a post pointing out that anxieties about feeding were not confined to breastfeeding (which acknowledged that your experience led you to feel anxious about bf and you didn't want to repeat it and I wished you luck)
• 2 posts to GothAnne which explained you were not being criticised

How on earth is any of that trying to coerce you?

If you have a complaint against the way people have posted on here, don't include me in it....thanks very much

Thanks, Butterfly

I would never want anyone to feel they were being subject to me coercing them, and I hope bobbyswish can return and tell me she accepts my defence

bobbyswish - I have bottle fed all 3 of my children. I do remember waking up about day 3 with humungous boobs but I wouldn't say I was actually in any pain with it, more discomfort, and that subsided after about 3 days.

I think that only you know how you feel and how things will effect you and you sound like you have thought this through a great deal and come to a rational and sensible desicion.

Good luck with your new baby xx

whilst i am not sure that no vaccinations at all is the right way to go, i do find the knee jerk 'you are selfish if you don't vaccinate' reaction puzzlingly illogical. If you follow that logic, then all adults, particularly those who care for children, should check that their own vaccination schedule is up to date, and that they are vaccinated or immune to all communicable diseases. Which is blatantly not the case. Actually, increasingly, adults are not immune to diseases that they once would have been ,as vaccine immunity often wears off whilst immunity from catching a disease does not.
[I am not arguing for an end to vaccination for polio, etc]

bobbyswish i am so sorry you feel bad about this but in no way is tiktok trying to coerce you.

afaik, the 'herd vaccinations' really only work if 95% of the population has them (per WHO.) They rely on the majority of the group to have them in order to prevent the spread of the disease. Parents who choose not to get them have been quoted as saying things along the lines of they don't need to get the vaccinations since most of the other children have them, so why put their child at risk? (eg, taking advantage of the herd immunity in place, while not taking the -unproven btw- risk of getting the jabs themselves.)

I'm only giving the explanation here, btw, since a few have asked why the non-vaccinating people have been called selfish. I have followed the news regarding the dropping rates of vaccination in both the US and UK news with interest for several years now.

I'd also like to say I'm sorry to contribute to the threadjacking here, but I'd say at least half the posts on these 4 pages haven't been addressing the OP's question, so I guess I thought I'd pile on.

er, i have followed the majority of non vaccination thread on MN and have never ever seen someone say 'Oh everyone else has them so why should my child' Where have you seen/heard someone say that cakebench? People have their own reasons for not/partially vaccinating, usually an agonising and well researched decision, not one taken with the attitude you suggest.

there are various problems and inconsistencies with the herd immunity theory, as well as some true things, but as you say this is probably not the place to discuss it. As i say i am not advocating no vaccinations, and vaccinations on the whole are a good thing.

"It is a bit like pain relief in childbirth imo - the only person who will remember years down the line is you"

What happens to you in labour and how a baby is fed for the first year of life has an impact on that child which is difficult to quantify. That's not to say it's irrelevant or non-existent. Assurances that 'it really won't matter what you do' can't be given with any degree of certainty. We don't know how our choices will affect our babies, we can only go on the evidence, and the evidence suggests that in many cases it does make a difference. Sorry to be pedantic, but I feel quite strongly that it's wrong to tell people it doesn't matter. We simply don't know.

I had two different types of tablets to stop my milk following a 2nd trimester miscarriage - they didn't work anyway (and no-one told me they were dangerous - am now terrified thanks!).

Anyway for the OP I had a bit of engorgement which I took painkillers and then leaked milk for less than 2 weeks and my breasts were back to normal within 6 weeks, it wasn't bad at all. Although you may find they leak when your baby cries - mine did as my older baby/toddler was crying.
BTW you may also find the hospital won't give you formula and you need to bring it with you- my first hospital had a no provision of formula policy for full-term healthy babies, posters up and everything, although whether this is put into practice or not I don't know.

ruty- I didn't claim this was an opinion of someone on this site. And I've just deleted the rest of my post because indeed, this isn't the place for it.

Bobbyswish, please don't feel that people have an agenda or are trying to convince you out of a decision you have already made. The best thing about a forum such as MN is that someone else searching for advice on the very same subject may take something completely different home with them (so to speak) when they read all the different opinions/ideas/suggestions etc given on a thread like this. You had gumption to actually post and ask the question. You have had lots of helpful suggestions, but people, suchas Tiktok and other trained or not people do feel that they have to give both sides of the coin to give a balanced response. Once again good luck with your impending birth! And I hope it all goes really well for you and your family as I am sure it will!