Ok I've decided not to b/f

[bobbyswish]

What happens to your milk/boobs in the aftermath of childbirth if you go straight to bottles? And do you give a bottle feed straight away the same as you would with b/f?

With regard to the mental health consequences of battling to breastfeed, this is such an individual thing; no one should generalise.

If someone traces their own mental ill-health to 'obsession with milk intake', as bobbyswish thinks happens with her, then of course considering infant feeding is going to be high on her agenda the next time round, added to concerns about exhaustion and isolation, which she says were part of the picture as well. I do agree that a mother's mental well-being is important not just for her but for her baby.

But 'obsession with milk intake' may be no better with formula milk. How do you know that the baby needed 4 oz or 6 oz at any particular time, and not 3 oz or 8 oz? Reading bottle feeding threads on mumsnet reveals that worries (if not actual obsessions) about intake with formula feeding are not uncommon.

Exhaustion and isolation are not restricted to breastfeeding, either - not by a mile. I think it is a real shame if breastfeeding is thought to lead to either or both of these - life as a new mother should be supported and eased, so breastfeeding barriers are lifted and so breastfeeding becomes enabled.

bobbyswish - in your case, I totally understand that you feel you have been there once and it was not a good choice for you and your baby and you want to do something else which you judge will be better for both of you...fair dos!

Try not to belittle the choice of others, though, won't you, by avoiding phrases such as 'current breast is best thinking' as if the choice to breastfeed is a whim based on fashion

Hope things work out for you.

The hospital will be fine I found more help with establishing bottle feeding than with breast feeding and didn't consider breast feeding 3rd time around as PND was a consideration. Boobs were a bit sore but not overly and just melted into the discomfort elsewhere. Best thing I found was to wear a very supported bra at all times for a couple of weeks. as for feeding straight away yes that is similar I think (cant remember well) DH was responsible for that one Hope all goes well for you.

I sadly had 2 stillbiths and was given tablets, never got milk in either time after the meds, but I wasn't full term, was over 20 weeks both times though.

actually my hospital will NOT provide formula as they are working towards baby friendly status so you would have to bring in your own.

as for engorgment it would be beneficial to express off a little with an eletric pump (not hand expression as this will stimulate oxytocin) to relieve the pressure then avoid touching the area.

good luck.

If it's a choice between breastfeeding and mental health problems, or bottle-feeding, the first is likely to cause longer term problems for the child (emotional and social) than the latter. (I'm a researcher in this kind of area). If you're sure that BFing would end up in anxiety and depression, I would have thought it's best for your baby to bottle-feed. Hope you get a good answer to your query about how to manage engorgement after the birth and good luck.

I would say bobbyswish, that breast pads will help when you get to the dolly parton days. Hot and cold compresses, nurofen or your prefered poison in terms of pain killers...red wine and definately cabbage leaves. But if you don't intend to even start bf, then the agony shouldn't be too bad. Having said that I bf DS for 6 weeks and stopped cold turkey - argh agony for about 4 days. Bf DD for 4 months, stopped cold turkey, and no pain at all. Milk was gone within a week too.

I am due DC3 in Nov, I BF furst 2 for a while and found it a major struggle with both losing alot of weight. I was stressed out that they weren't getting enough, latching on properly etc etc and ended up in a right state both times. this time i intend to BF for first 2 weeks tops, then FF. I want baby to have best stuff i can give, but knowing how i have felt BFing before i know it is best for myself, the baby and for my other DCs that I FF. Good luck x

I'm so glad I put my mental health first.

Because the baby wouldn't have a mother at all if I hadn't.

I was suicidal after every child.

Don't let anyone make you feel guilty, bobby.

You do what you feel is best for your family, you know them best.

Did that put you off having more after the 1st Expat?

I had a full term stillbirth and they didn't advise the pills - they said they would make me feel terrible and therefore it would be worse than letting the milk come in. I didn't have too much problem with milk or engorgement so can't really comment on that. They said to use cold compresses to ease discomfort (because hot will stimulate more milk to come)

'Did that put you off having more after the 1st Expat?'

Obviously not as I had two more, moondog.

Well I know that.....I mean did it put you off temporarily?

How awful Boring.

I am sorry to hear this is worrying you anc as someone who like expat was pushed to feeling suicidal after childbirth I understand. I went to bottle feeding earlier than I would have liked for almost the exact same reasons you speak of. My daughter nearly grew up without a mother and accepting that I could not breastfeed and going onto a bottle was a small part of my recovery.

My PND means that I will probably never have any more children despite desperately wanting them and having spent most of this year making ourselves financially secure so we can have children. THis illness has robbed me of the right to be a mother more than once and it hurts.

If you wish to CAT me bobby please feel free.

Good luck.

I can't really remember much of my eldest's first year and a half of life, moondog.

After the fog lifted, I did want to have another child. DD1 would not have made a good only child and I wasn't getting any younger.

BF did work out with my second child, mainly because she was incredibly easy to feed and didn't really have any trouble.

But by that point it didn't bother me one way or another.

So with this one, when it started to feel like razor blades every time he fed and I kid you not there is no real-life help out here, I didn't hesitate to go get bottles and formula.

My health visitor came around saw the state I was getting in trying to feed my dd, who was picking up on my tension and screaming and went out and bought formula.

Maybe I should have tried for longer, I do look back now with a sense of regret but I would rather be alive and regretful than not be here at all

the OP didn't ask for persuassion, just advice on dealing with huge boobs and milk.

i have no advice on boobs and milk, but just wanted to offer support - there are worse things that you can do than ff your baby

I think that often a couple of points are missed in these types of threads.

1. The most important factor is that your baby is fed and nourished - where ever that comes from ultimately is not important.

1. The OP was asking a direct question about engorgement and didn't want to get into a debate about bf or ff.

1. She's not going to know how she feels until the baby is born. This baby might go straight to the breast and be brilliant at bf and the mother happy with that decision.

Picking the OP and other contributors apart about their choices is not helpful.

"My health visitor came around saw the state I was getting in trying to feed my dd, who was picking up on my tension and screaming and went out and bought formula."

Ditto, twinset.

"there are worse things that you can do than ff your baby"

Couldn't agree more chou. bobbyswish - mine went down after about 48 hrs, first 24 very painful, then eased off. I pretty much went cold turkey, but also used cold flannels to ease the soreness.

best wishes

The comment about the worries about milk intake struck a chord with me, as I have a friend who switched from BF to FF because she was worried about her babies intake. It made things worse for her, as before she had worried about the intake, but when the baby was FF she knew exactly how little her baby was taking (the baby was fine BTW, turns out she just didnt drink much).

Bobby - have you had some advice about the mental health problems? I found that I had pretty severe anxiety after the birth of all of my children, the first 2 times I actually had genuine worries. The third time was dreadful, as I had the same anxiety, but nothing to base it on. That phase didnt last long, as it turned out that my DD3 had some health problems (so then I actually did have something real to worry about, IYSWIM), but it did make me realise that for me the anxiety was not related to what was going on in my life, but was just a biological reaction to having a baby.

Another vote for cabage leaves (MW told me it had to be savoy cabbage as well!)
Breasts got full but not engorged. I had a lovely pattern on them, and smelt like a cabbage soup factory but hey

superglue, although I agree that the most important thing is that babies are fed and nourished, I don't agree with the second part of that sentence. In effect you are saying there is no difference between bm and formula. Anyway - that's for another thread!

Firstly, congratulations on your pregnancy

My (now 27 week old) ds2 was bf for 4 weeks (mixed for a further 2) and my boobs took AGES to stop leaking and being uncomfortable! I'm talking 4 months! I had to wear breast pads for some time. My advice, as you seem to have decided not to bf at all, is dont feed from your breasts at all - I know the colostrum has many health benefits for baby, but it will really stimulate your breasts to produce milk, especially as this is your third baby.

You will become engorged around day 3 but if you arent feeding it should get better after around 3-4 days.

I hope ff this baby is less stressful for you. Best of luck! x

Stealth you are right and I agree, another thread...the ones I studiously avoid!

Oh, I forgot to mention that your breasts get hot (as I'm sure you know) so if you need lightly steamed cabbage for that night's dinner, you kill two birds with one stone!
(I promise I'm not employed by the Savoy Cabbage Company!)