Can anyone help me? Im so low and sad.

[SleepyCaz]

DD is 3 weeks and 2 days today. She is a cnstant feeder. Im bf-ing, but having to top up with Aptamil 1 every few hours as she is ravenous constantly. When she is ot at my breast she frantically roots and screams. Tried Infacol and vigarous winding, to no avail. Have not slept in 24 hours. Feel hideously depressed. Fighting with DH due to feeling so awful. HAVE 2.5 year old DS to look after too, who is an angel bless him, but im getting to the point where im short with him if he even asks to go to the toilet. I seem to have to feed my DD for 3+ hours before she is full, at least. Most was 5 hours! From one breast to the other and back, over and over, with some formula in the middle, but always needs to finish on a breast or wont go down at all. Sleeps for max of one hour, then screaming for more again. Seen HVs 4 x this last week and they just say, her weight gain is fine, shes ok, carry on!! I seriously cant cope. Dangerously close to PND, marriage suffering, son suffering. Not even eaten yet today. Caled HVs again but they don't work weekends. Have a tin of hungrier aptamil but darent use it as one of the 4 different HVs i saw made me feel as if it was arsenic! She said it should NEVER be used, esp on a baby so little. DS was on SMA white from 8 weeks though. I am hallucinating from tiredness and feel im ruining my son and husbands lives and frightened im not bonding properly with new DD. She sometimes drops off in my arms, but the min she hits the matress shes screaming again. Tried warming the sheets first, squirting drops of my milk on her blanket, everything, but nothing helps. Am so stressed. Will hungry milk help at all, or is there something else? I lost 3 litres of blood during my delivery and HVs keep telling me to "rest, remember you had a PPH!!" Sorry such long post.

Hi Sleepycaz, just popped in to see how you're doing. I have an idea re co-sleeping... when we were co sleeping, on the nights when DP had a drink, I would put my DS on the outside of the bed, and placed a barrier there to keep him safe. In fact, it ended up being my favourite way to sleep. That might help you get some sleep...

Also, on the sleep subject, when your DD sleeps on you, is she facing you, all snuggled up? If so, imagine the transition from that to lying on her back in a basket. My DS only settled in his basket once I let him sleep on his side, having practised on me first. I don;t know what the official advice is on this, but the HV in the end agreed with me that if that was the only way he would sleep I didn't have much choice.

Still can't help with the feeding, but thinking of you greatly and agree with tiktok that you need support. Can DD sleep on your DH for a few hours in the evening while you get some shut eye? Everything will seem better if you can get some sleep at least- a little goes a long way at times like these IME. And are you managing to eat?

x

SleepyCaz,You are having such a hard time and like others say you need and deserve some good support. After the bleed you suffered I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the midwife/ health visitor to still be visiting you at home. How do you feel about calling her and asking for an urgent visit? I know the kind of tiredness you are describing and it is so difficult to think clearly. You need someone who will sit and listen and help you (and your DH) to come up with a plan for how to get through the next day or two. You will get through this but it will be a little easier with some good real life support.

My DS was like this at first. Constantly feeding, crying when not feeding and very difficult to get to sleep. I could only get some rest by offering a bottle of formula. I then struggled for weeks with trying to reduce the amount of formula. Eventually I ended up mixed feeding ds and then at 10 weeks I gave up bf . I gave up because I was so exhausted with the battle that feeding had become and because I was constantly encouraged by well-meaning family members to feed my baby formula (they hated to see him apparently starving). Now I'm less tired I regret giving up. Somethings that helped me:

1. Feeding whilst lying down and co-sleeping. Made a massive difference to my milk supply and amount of sleep I was getting. Unfortunately I didn't try this until 5 weeks. I so wish I'd done this from the start. From my experience feeding lots at night is critical.

1. Swaddling. Really helped DS to sleep. Again I wish I'd done this from the start.

1. Taking DS out in the pram. Always sent him to sleep and gave me a break from constant feeding.

1. An electric swing. The best thing anyone gave me. DS fell asleep immediately.

My DS wouldn't really take a dummy either.

Also, my understanding is that lack of food will impact on milk supply. If you are not eating then your body will find other ways to fulfill its energy requirements. Either by burning fat (what most of us want!) or protein (if things get desperate). Or by reducing its energy needs (ie. reducing milk production). Milk production will be one of the first things to be reduced as your body will preserve itself first. This is why strict dieting is not recommended during bf. Also you my be affecting the nutritional content of your milk. The same is true for fluid intake.

I have used MN regularly over the past couple of years and have found most posters to be helpful and supportive. However some posts in this topic are so harsh and often downright nasty. It totally puts me off MN.

Good luck to the OP. I really hope things work out for you with bf. But if they don't, then please don't beat yourself up about it like I've done. I have a healthy, happy ff 17 week old baby and I have shed so many unnecessary tears over failing to bf. It's only now that I can see that I had tried my best and I've learned lots for next time.

For co-sleeping I did the same thing that singalongmum did. Put DS between me and the edge of the bed, but pulled up the moses basket against the bed to act as a barrier to ds falling out.

I also meant to say that when DS was fussing at the breast it often helped to use the rugby hold (I think that's what its called). My DS has always disliked being cradled in my arms . Even now I sometimes bottle feed him in his bouncy chair because he wriggles and grumbles so much in my arms.

dizzee - sorry to read your story Lack of support from family is a real shame, too. Hope you get to feel better in time.

Have to jump in and comment on this, though:

"Also, my understanding is that lack of food will impact on milk supply [.......] Milk production will be one of the first things to be reduced as your body will preserve itself first. This is why strict dieting is not recommended during bf. Also you my be affecting the nutritional content of your milk. The same is true for fluid intake."

Fortunately, none of this is correct. Milk production is the last thing to be affected by an inadequate diet - and then only when the mother is literally starving. Strict dieting is not recommended because the mother's body and health will be affected, before the milk is affected. The quality of the milk is unaffected. Fluid intake is not an issue - mothers only need to drink to thirst.

This is just the way it is - lots of research shows it happens like this, too.

I had a similar problem with baby. he never seemed satisfied. In the end i bought an electric breast pump off ebay. I followed a routine to try and increase my milk supply. Basically I was expressing a couple of ounces in the morning then giving baby the rest.

I was also having a good express in the evening trying to get as much as I could.

I think what sometimes can happen is that when baby is demand feeding he begins by taking little and often. That makes your breasts produce little and often.

What might be happening now is that he is having a little growth spurt and wanting to take more, but as your breasts are still producing a little bit often, he is having to feed constantly just to meet his demands.

If you try expressing a few times a day,band then expressing as much as you can in the evening and maybe getting partner to give baby one expressed bottle before bed so he has a good satisfying feed in the evening and you can have an early night. it fools your breasts into thinking baby has taken more therefore producing big amounts every so often rather than little and often, this will eventually lead to a more satisfying feed for your baby that will allow him to go longer between feeds.

you can speak to your health visitor or bfc but all they told me was "its normal, go with what your baby wants" but this can be so draining and is one of the reasons many women stop.

The book I used was Gina ford's contented little baby book. I dont agree with everything in there but there is a jolly good routine/guideline that should help. I didnt follow to routine exactly as well we all know every baby is different, but it helps you anticipate your babies needs before they get frantic, helps you getting them to have good sleep patterns in the day (not too much not too little). Many people dislike gina ford before reading the books but its not a strict routine like people say, its more gentle encouragement.

My baby who WAS very fretful, and unsettled in the evening, and never seemed satisfied now is very predictable. Sleeps from 8pm to 6am with one 11pm feed. Is no longer overtired and stressed in the day. Its worth a go.

And for people to say that it could be the bottles that cause the breastfeeding problems....I personally dont agree with this. At the end of the day you NEED a break! The expressing is a good idea as baby is still get BM. My baby latched on fine whilst i was breastfeeding, but had bottle as well.

I no longer breastfeed plainly because I didnt make enough effort with breastfeeding. I liked having the freedom of the bottle and I didnt express enough, so I dried up.

But whilst I WAS making enough effort, this really worked for me. Its worth a go anyway.

Hope this helps ;)

So much wonderful advice already, and i haven't had time to read the whole thread but had to just add a few commnets.

1. You are doing a fantastic job. You are an absolute star and are doing everything you are physically able (and not able) to do for your little one. I am lucky enough to have a star 10 month old and a 5.5 year old and I have bad days. That's a 4.5 year age gap and you only have a 2 year age gap. Stop being so hard on yourself!!!

1. It seems to me that a baby of this age who takes 5oz from a bottle and still cries is not hungry. And you said DD is gaining weight so please take some assurance from this that your baby is getting what she needs from you. If there is an issue then IMO it's not necessarily with your supply (TICTOK is an expert on this so I will bow to her advice). I think someone has already mentioned reflux (DS1 had the non silent chuck up everywhere reflux) and I would suggest you talk to your GP and ask for help on this. The behaviour you describe is pretty much what you would expect from a baby with silent reflux.

1. I have two friends who swear by cranial osteopathy. Both had a bad time (one was 6 weeks early) in the first few weeks and both found that this worked for them. I don't know your full birth story but it may be worth giving this a go.

1. After 3 weeks of hell with DS1 (reflux, thrush, mastistitus and inexperience got the better of me) I gave up and bottle fed. He is one of the healthiest children I know and has not grown an extra head or turned into an alien. I BFed DS2 to 6 months and only gave up as I had to go back to work. Never managed to express and from 3 months successfully mixed breast, bottle and formula so DH was able to late feed. I suppose it does depend on the child and the mum, but IMHO I think that a late bottle feed gives dad a chance to have some baby time and mum a chance to rest. I'm sure TICTOK will corret me if I'm wrong, but I found that my breats adjusted to not giving this last feed and it did not seem to affect my supply. I think DS2 also accepted that this feed he would not have me!

My heart is with you as, after my experience with DS1, I have a small idea of what you are going through and I know how the doubt and guilt can weigh you down. Stick with it, push for what you want to do and ring the helplines, that's what they are there for.

xxx

BR

Bump
SleepyCaz .. how are things?

Have you considered cranial osteopathy?Sounds like my first on boob for 6 hours regularly never content no sleep me not eating very bad time!Sorted out very quockly with C.O.
I know its hard but if you top up with anything you ll never make sufficient and all your incredible hard work wii be for not
hing!
I suggest you co-sleep or at least co-rest
Eat something nutritious regularly
Drink tons of water
Let anyone you trust walk the baby outside for hours (babe will sleep and grow-you will rest and increase supply]
and try cranial x

Sleepy caz, my heart goes out to you.. i could have written your op myself .. my dd was EXACTLY as you describe. i thought i was going to go mad from the lack of sleep, the effect on my relationship and the constant anxiety that something was wrong with her.no one i knew at the time had a baby like it! i totally also experienced the extreme fussing at the breast with the refusal to feed and the back arching ..
the things that helped me in the end were

1.expressing everyday and husband giving just the one bottle of ebm in the evening to give me a short break

2 breast feeding counsellor said i needed to eat a sugary snack in the evening (not sure why this was meant to help but i would have tried anything at that point)

3 taking fenugreek tablets to boost supply

4 cranial ostopathy

5 using the sling around the house

6 co sleeping

things did eventually improve although it did take a while..i would not have coped without the help of a breast feeding counsellor who went above and beyond to help me.. and i did carry on bf in rhe end until she was 17m so i promise it will get better, hang on in there and take any help and support that you can (smile)

Hi, I'm just about to go to bed and can't read all the thread, but the symptoms of screaming after a couple of seconds on the breast, arching, going back on, screaming, arching etc is exactly what DD did when she was young. I am no expert, but I decided that I was overfeeding her. Every time she cried I tried to put my boob in her mouth and basically she'd take it, probably to make herself feel better. I think she was seriously full and also I just could not get her to burp, so on top of being horribly full she was also unable to get rid of any gas so I think she had awful tummy ache. I tried Colief and I think it did work, but you must take it religiously. I found gripe water made her do massive burps, but hard to get it into her.

I thought that she might have reflux for a while as back arching is a sign of it, so I always held her upright and put her in a cot that was up on books at the head end.

I think it was just colic though tbh, it was horrific between the hours of 7-10pm, she would just scream non stop and it was a real heartbreaker. She did grow out of it though, and the back arching and screaming at the breast reduced a lot once I stopped feeding her every three seconds! I also gave her a dummy whenever she came off the breast and started clock watching and making sure I wasn't offering too soon after the last feed. This goes against everything that people say you should do, but I felt it was the right thing to do for us, and it worked.

As I said - I am NOT an expert, but this is my experience so thought I should share.

You MUST eat, you can't make milk if you aren't eating properly.

my dd also regularly comes on and off the breast seeming frustrated, arching her back and crying/ screaming since the first few days really. I took this to mean she was hungry and I must have some supply issues, so I topped up with formula. She is 8 weeks now and after the first couple of weeks we realised she is an extremely windy/ colicy baby, I don't know if this is the same with your baby. We tried infacol which didn't seem to help at all; I looked at my diet and cut out so many things - onions, brocolli, cabbage, salmon (!), it seemed to help a bit but she still seemed to be in so much pain. The "solution" we use now is, when we see the wind starting, to start to slowly move her legs in a circle around her body clockwise and anticlockwise, that usually brings out some very loud farts. Another good move is to bend her legs up to her chest (holding them at the thigh near to the groin) and sort of wiggling them into her chest, then out again - again, usually producing big poops! After a few minutes of this she usually completely relaxes and we can get on with the feed or whatever we were in the middle of at the time. I should add that of course we are very careful when doing this not to hurt her!

For what it's worth, I was convinced it was hunger for the first few weeks cos she'd gulp down the formula whenever offered. Now I think she was comfort sucking the bottle because of the pain from the wind, and she most probably didn't need the formula after all.

Anyway, I could be totally off the mark here but after reading your post I did wonder if your baby might also be very windy? Might be worth trying the moves (I call the first one the "windmill").

You have lost a lot of blood, get some Spatone from the chemist (natural iron supplement), sounds like you'll need extra support until your body recovers. Can your mum help out more? Anyone else? Could you hire a post natal doula?
You need some iron rich foods - houmous, beetroot, spinach, watercress, red meat etc.
Seems like the artificial top ups might be causing indigestion and nipple confusion? Get some help with cutting out the top ups?

Hi

Thank you again everyone.

I caved in about 9 days ago and switched to mixed feeding, using Aptamil Hungrier, at the suggestion of yet another HV. DD seemed to settle at first, but the the screaming and fussing was worse and my breasts were leaking everywhere or being totally dry one minute and spraying the next. Was at wits end again. Then last Friday DD woke with an awful case of what looked like infant acne. After a trip to GP, it was diagnosed at sebbhoroeic dermatitis, which we were given Hydrocortisone cream. I started thinking that maybe the crying was down to itchiness, was eassured not though.
Sunday night DD started screaming and fussing worse than ever and would not sleep for longer than half an hour. Had an horrific night and Monday she was the same. DH drove her to the Walk In Centre on Mon night as she was so distressed. They could find nothing except a slightly bloated tummy. Said it may have been Colic with constipation (she hadnt been since Sunday am) or reflux, but that they couldnt diagnose reflux in one so young. Another awful night of screaming on Tuesday. Really bad ditressed crying, it was like a "pain" cry and it went on all night. My HV called on Tue morning and heard her crying, said she sounded very distressed and to take her to Childrens Emergency Dept. Struggled all the way there on bus with DD and DS. Waited 2 hours, but when they did see us, they sent us straight through. Examined DD all over and tested urine and blood sugar. Doctor said she was colicky and constipated, as she still hadnt "been" and suggested apple juice in water, he also said he thought it was likely she had reflux too and prescribed Gaviscon. Tried both last night and the G.Scon after feeds and she seemed settled and has had a big poo!
Even better, i went to an NCT Baby Fair on Saturday and spaoke to a BF counsellor, she took me into a private room and listened to all the issues i had had and the fact id started ff aswell. She gave me so much better advice than any of my HVs, GP or Midwife. She showed me a new BF position, the biological nursing one and have managed to DRASTICALLY increase my Bf-ing again and cut WAY back on the formula.
Still working out the bugs, so to speak, but feel so much more positive.

Caz that's great news - not all the horridness re:hospital, constipation etc obviously!
I'm so glad you saw someone, there is no substitute for face to face help.
Congratulations, and good luck with getting the BFing re-established.

Hi,
Just another message of support sounds like things are going in the right direction, best of luck with everything!

Fab. Well done you, for persisiting and trying, and struggling and seeking help and everything really.

I'm sorry it's been so hard. I hope things begin to improve.

Another message of support from me. You've gone through so much...those first few weeks are so difficult, especially with a screaming baby. I remember that I had lost all sense of time & normality at that stage. But it does pass, I promise, & you're doing so well under very difficult circumstances.

Please update us on how you're doing...

HELP - Really struggling to feed my tongue-tied baby
My 7 week old daughter had her posteior tt cut at 5 weeks but as yet no improvement & still can't latch on so feeds for an hour at a time and it really hurts.She also has really short tongue for a double whammy. I'm so distressed by this,dreading every feed & finding it hard to bond with her, my 3 yr old son is being neglected and dh wants me to give up and bf. Can anyone help me or should I just admit defeat, I loved bf my son and this is heartbreaking

make anew thread fo rthis and you will get help form people with experience

Thanks so much to everyone on MN who answered all my frantic posts, while i struggled with DD (now 25 weeks).

All of you were so helpful, and i feel awful at having been so tardy with my replies.

DD is now a very placid, contented baby. Loving solid food and sleeping through the night, like a lamb!

Everything has fallen into place pretty well, a few bumps with DS (3.2) having tantrums about attention, but all is well.

Thanks again MN-ers.

jennylee

Really think you should seek some professional advice

if you scrowl through this thread you will find some tel numbers to ring

The NCT have breastfeeding counsellors who can come and help ( i about to start training myself)

I had an awful time bf with thrush and had horrendous pain, I demanded help from my local hospital, and I am no exclusivly feeding my ds 17 weeks with no problems at all and now I am looking to train to be able to help others