Can anyone help me? Im so low and sad.

[SleepyCaz]

DD is 3 weeks and 2 days today. She is a cnstant feeder. Im bf-ing, but having to top up with Aptamil 1 every few hours as she is ravenous constantly. When she is ot at my breast she frantically roots and screams. Tried Infacol and vigarous winding, to no avail. Have not slept in 24 hours. Feel hideously depressed. Fighting with DH due to feeling so awful. HAVE 2.5 year old DS to look after too, who is an angel bless him, but im getting to the point where im short with him if he even asks to go to the toilet. I seem to have to feed my DD for 3+ hours before she is full, at least. Most was 5 hours! From one breast to the other and back, over and over, with some formula in the middle, but always needs to finish on a breast or wont go down at all. Sleeps for max of one hour, then screaming for more again. Seen HVs 4 x this last week and they just say, her weight gain is fine, shes ok, carry on!! I seriously cant cope. Dangerously close to PND, marriage suffering, son suffering. Not even eaten yet today. Caled HVs again but they don't work weekends. Have a tin of hungrier aptamil but darent use it as one of the 4 different HVs i saw made me feel as if it was arsenic! She said it should NEVER be used, esp on a baby so little. DS was on SMA white from 8 weeks though. I am hallucinating from tiredness and feel im ruining my son and husbands lives and frightened im not bonding properly with new DD. She sometimes drops off in my arms, but the min she hits the matress shes screaming again. Tried warming the sheets first, squirting drops of my milk on her blanket, everything, but nothing helps. Am so stressed. Will hungry milk help at all, or is there something else? I lost 3 litres of blood during my delivery and HVs keep telling me to "rest, remember you had a PPH!!" Sorry such long post.

oh yes ideally that Snowlight, of course! But my response was to Nontoxic who seemed to be saying to the OP that she should be able to cope with a screaming newborn at the breast 24 hours a day when she's already hallucinating with tiredness. I stand corrected by nontoxic's post of just now which said that her earlier one was in reply to another poster not the OP

Phew!

LOL

OP I certainly hope you are sleeping through this bickering!!

It's probably sent her off nicely

Thank you for all your advice everybody. It has made my weekend. Feel a bit guilty for causing bickering though! Oops.

DH took both LOs to Asda then his mums today. I got a bath and 2 hours sleep! Which was fab, but he had to give her a bottle of 5oz Aptamil1 while they were out. He said she drank a bit, screamed, drank a bit, screamed etc.

When they all got back i was still in bed and DS was waking up in her car seat. Stripped her off and brought her in with me for a babymoon. She seemed to like it until she had finished feeding, then she cried. I thought they loved babymooning even if they werent eating? She only seemed to tolerate it while she was latched on. Is this normal.

She is asleep now, so i'm watching 2 and a half men while DH makes (late) Sunday dinner and a snack for DS.

My Babasling comes tomo and DS has nursery all day so will try another babymoon or will keep her in sling.

Any ideas to help me for tonight? Last night she slept ok and woke up for 2 bf's at 1 and 3. But then screamed from 4.20am til 6.30am.

xx

SleepyCaz, not your fault people disagreed with some others!!

The babymoon thing is lovely, but babies will still cry sometimes if they need to change position or sit up to have a burp or whatever...or she may get hot!

When she screams in the early hours, what calms her? Will she bf again, or be cuddled again, next to you in bed?

5 oz is a lot of formula to give, I have to say, to a mainly bf baby....it's probably more than a fully ff baby of 3 weeks would have at any one time. I wonder if she got a bit too full with that???

It is a lot of formula isn't it? The thing is, she roots constantly, all day and night. Even after 2 hrs of bfing. An she hates dummies, so still at wits end. Was not expecting a perfect baby who ate asnd slept like clockwork, but to never ever sleep and to want hours and hours of feeding before she will go down for as little as 30 mins, is not normal surely? Should i take her to the GP? Is there something wrong? Arching her back and coming off latch screaming today.

sleepycaz - so glad you managed a couple of hours "me" time (and sleep).
When my ds did the early wake-up calls, I'd go to bed really early (8ish) and get dh to bring ds to me if he needed a feed. Once my dh went to bed, I'd take over the twilight shift (around the sametine as your dd).
Also, dh had strict instructions not to give ds a bottle. If you could try and reduce it throughout the week, you may find at the end of the week a more contented baby (as I did). in fact, I couldn't believe how happier ds was.

Not going to give any bottles today. Since the one DH gave at 3pm, obv. Going ok so far, though shes been feeding o and off for 4hrs now and only snoozing in my arms.

Forgot to say before, does the fact that i had a csec and a pph of 3 litres matter?

I had a csc and pph of 2 litres and was bleeding heavily for 6 weeks. Felt completely drained. For me(and ds) it was important that I rested,ate and took things easily. I just took one day at a time.

You poor thing - I echo the advice on here - just a few more points.

Get her checked for tongue tie and/or latch. That could be causing her not to get a lot of milk hence the long feeds. It could also mean she takes in quite a bit of air alongside the milk and then screams because her tummy hurts.

What about thrush in her mouth? That can make things sore for her

Something I dont know a lot about - silent reflux. So lots of stomach pain and screaming but not actually being sick.

She could also scream at the breast as she is not getting milk as quickly as she would out of the bottle and gets frustrated?

One position I found fab with my DD who was a bit restless was, in between feeds, to lie her on my lap face down (obviously head to one side) and pat her back - she loved it. Or the so called cradle hold - so she lies face down along your fore arm with her head in the crook of your arm.

Breast compression - do you think your milk flows quite slowly? Does she seem to be taking milk or just comfort sucking? Whilst she is feeding you press gently on your milk ducts and it leads to a faster flow of milk. Quite often your milk ducts will feel a bit tender around your breast - try pressing gently on the top of it and around the edges.

Comfort sucking - I have had two very sucky babies - has DH tried his clean knuckle? The thing is though the sucking is often there for a reason - to boost your milk supply. Along with the bottles if she isnt stimulating your supply then it can drop leaving her frustrated and screaming.

If she is screaming a warm bath with her can sometimes help. Skin to skin helps too.

Have you tried cranial osteopathy? Or seen a homeopath or baby massage? Cranial osteopathy seems to work wonders when babies seem hard to settle.

Tried putting her to sleep in a low bouncy or vibrating chair - and keep bouncing it? Seemed to help both of mine.

And to echo everyone else - formula really is a vicious circle. the more she has the less you will produce. I really think you may need some expert help here though - have you rung one of the helplines?

Hope she is more settled soon xxxx

I had Csec for my early baby, and it is a mental and physical trauma-please be gentle on yourself
My baby fed constantly every 2 hours day and night as he was early. I can still recall the exhaustion, but please be strong, you are giving such a gift to your baby through bfeeding and it will begin to get easier.Ds did eventually take a dummy (cherry teat) as he had an incredibly strong suck impulse, and this really calmed him to be able to suck without having to eat when he was full.
I agree with the other mums who say not to supplement the feeds with formula-I have bfed 3 babies now and havent done that, your supply can sometimes be fragile and needs time to establish. Reading your posts and the helpful replys brings it all back to me...keep strong

Yes - pph can lead to difficulties establishing a good supply, as can anaemia...would be good to get your blood count checked, SleepyCaz.

My blood count was 8.5 when i left the hospital. I was kept in HDU for the first 24 hours after the birth where my HB level was checked every few hours. It was 7 at it's lowest. When it got to 8.5, less than 2 days later, they sent me home with 2 weeks of Iron tablets. No prescrip for any more and had taken DD off me to top her up on all 3 of the nights i was in the hosp. They said they did this to "Give me a break and allow me to sleep. There is no point in trying and trying for hours, you are very anaemic and will be for ages, this is the only way she is going to get any food" Everyone since has told me they were wrong and i was let out too early. DD is asleep now but watch this space! Thanks again everyone x

Hi Sleepycaz, I can't tell you anymore re breastfeeding as you seem to have found the experts already. But I do want to say that it sounds like we had similar birth experiences- I too lost blood, and had low blood count/ severe anaemia for quite some time after the birth. My DS would often feed for two hours and I couldn't believe it- but he was my first so it was easier.

What I DO know though is that traumatic births can affect your physical and emotional state and being that anaemic can make you feel very depressed. So take it easy, be nice to yourself, EAT. It's a rough patch but your DS will be ok. This will pass and when you are physically stronger you will feel like a different person. Maybe your DH could make you a load of sandwiches ever evening so there's always something around for you? He may feel better if he feels he cna be of practical use- I've heard men like that

I agree with nontoxic- to establish breastfeeding at all when your body is at a low ebb is a major achievement.

WELL DONE and CONGRATULATIONs

Sleepycaz- I am not a medical professional but I think if you can find the time, a visit to the GP might be a good idea. Two weeks worth of iron tablets after such a large bleed does not sound like very many to me.

I too had a big bleed and was physically and emotionally drained. You do need to eat, preferably iron rich foods (do you like dark chocolate? I think that has iron in it!), but anything is better than nothing. Whilst I understand that this will not affect milk supply, it will make you feel better and make you more able to deal with the situation at the moment. Can you send your DH to the supermarket tomorrow to stock up on snacks and food that is easy to grab? For weeks after coming home, I had snacks by the bed so I could eat whenever I felt like it. Also if your DH has to go back to work, asking him to leave a packed lunch in the fridge is a good idea.

If are prescribed iron tablets, I was told that taking them with a small glass of orange juice (and avoiding tea for an hour or so) will aid absorbtion.

It is hard and you are doing well. Hope you get some rest tonight.

Hello sleepycaz.

Your story sounds a bit like mine. I had low supply due to bf-ing not being established properly at the start. DS failed to gain weight properly (ie he did gain, but too slowly) until 8wks old.

For me what helped in the short term was (1) sling, (2) snacking, (3) co sleeping. What really sorted things out though was (1) getting an expert bfc to review the latch, not just once but a few times (2) pumping between feeds to increase my supply (3) galactagogues to increase my supply. (2) and (3) do not work unless the latch is fixed first though.

You can get something called Spatone for the anaemia - my MW recommended this. I had iron tablets from GP as well though.

Good luck. You might not have low supply like I did, but even if you do, it is not always the end of the world, although things will be harder for a while.

DS now 1 year old and still BFing. And still loves the sling.

If you don't get on with Babasling do try a few others - you can hire them from Sasaslings I think in order to try them out.

Hi Sleepycaz you sound more positive thankfully. You are doing a great job and must keep your mental and physical health at the top of your priorities....try to concentrate a bit more on getting calories in and resting. This will help your milk and bf lying in bed whenever you can with your baby to save you getting up.

I struggled first few weeks, had to give aptimil to top up and couldn't see how things would change but they do and they will for you. Even relationship with fella was tough and I felt very alone with the baby but this got better once feeding / sleep / routine more settled.

Don't be hard on yourself, you are doing a fantastic job...and it is a very tough hard job so give yourself a break and try breathing deeply and saying to yourself, "I am a mum, it is hard but I am doing the best I can, things will get better" then reward yourself regularly with lots of chocolate and plenty of tea! keep your chin up petal.

Just pumped after another unsuccessful attempt to feed. She stayed latched on right boob for about 15 mins, then started screaming around my nipple and pulling off, arching back and kicking. Winded her, then put her back on both for a while, but she just scratched and screamed and spat them out. She is still screaming and am ashamed to say she is mid formula bottle. She just won't take my breast. Screams til she goes blue and WILL NOT stay on the breast. Tried to pump for ages after, while DH was in cycle of bottle, wind, bottle, wind. NOTHING came out. Hardly a drop. During first week of her life i filled a bottle nearly with EBM, now there is none and she is going frantic. I think im going crazy. Feel detatched from everything. She is constantly unhappy. Does no milk coming out when i pmp mean there is none there. Dangerously worried for her. Could she be very ill?

Pumping will stimulate your breasts to produce more milk - that's why it's not a great idea to pump when you're weanin g - it temporarily relieves the pressure, but doesn't stop your body producing milk.

And the milk is 'there' - some people don't respond to pumping (I never could get more than a few drops.)

I think a bf counsellor could reassure you better than a forum - all respect to those here who are fantastic, but I'm sure they'd agree that the sound of a human voice can make a huge difference to how you feel about what the person is saying. Hope that makes sense.

I'm sure someone will be able to give you a number if you don't already have one.

I doubt she is ill, I think she has "nipple confusion".She has had so many bottles that she doesn't want the breast now. I also think that she may have reflux, (and 50% of babies with reflux are intolerant to cows milk, which is what formula is made from....) and I also agree that 5oz is a HUGE bottle for a 3 week old baby, she must be stuffed, no wonder she's crying!!

Can I ask, when you were in HDU, where was she? And how was she fed? If she was given bottles and dummies from the start then she will have learnt to suck an artificial teat, which is totally different to the way they need to suck to breastfeed. As such she may well be sucking and sucking but not really getting much, hence the need to feed constantly. This can do bad things for your milk supply, as this kind of inefficient sucking doesn't stimulate the milk supply, so your milk supply goes down, baby wants to feed for longer as they get even less, and then they get given a "top-up" bottle, and of course get filled beyond full, and so on.

Stress can interfere with milk letdown, and a PPH can make milk slower to come in. Have you tried feeding in Biological Nurturing positions? Basically you lie on your back or recline, with baby laid on her tummy on your tummy, head between your breasts, and allow the baby to root and find the nipple, with minimal guidance. Many babies don't like to be held in the cradle hold, especially if you are holding the back of thier head/neck, and arch back, flail thier arms and cry when feeding is attempted like this. Try the baby moon thing with her laid on your chest on her tummy, rather than you lying on your side with her laid next to you.

Babies can't regulate thier intake until they are about 8 weeks old, until then they will guzzle bottles even if they aren't hungry because the milk comes out even if they aren't sucking, so just because she drinks a 5oz bottle doesn't mean she was hungry for a 5oz bottle. At this age 2 or 3 oz should be fine, bear in mind her stomach is the size of her fist, so little and often is the way to fill a tummy that size.

Phone a BF helpline;

The New National Breastfeeding Helpline 0844 20 909 20 ,

Breastfeeding Network 0844 412 4664

NCT BF supporter line 0300 33 00 771

La Leche League 0845 120 2918

Assoc of BF Mothers 020 7813 1481

Don't give up, you can still solve this if you get the right help and support. Good luck.

Ring the helplines! Honestly!
I was really reluctant to ring them and wish I had done so earlier - they are REALLY helpful.

Nipple confusion is hard - she screams - you get stressed - because you are stressed, you don't let down the milk very fast - she gets crosser and crosser!

Don't force it - think of it as coaxing her back to the breast - take a bath with her, use biol nurturing positions, etc.

There is something called a SNS you could try where the baby gets the formula supplement at the breast and so learns that the breast is a nice place to be. It also helps stimulate your breast to make more milk. Bit fiddly to learn though I gather.

To reduce the nipple confusion, you could also try cup feeding her small feeds of formula from the top of a bottle (we did this: messy, but surprisingly easy) which will stop her always expecting a bottle instead of a breast.

You can do this x

Thank you everyone, so much All good advice and v helpful.

Problems are continuing though. last night and the ight before she refused to sleep at all, unless she was in my arms. I had a little over an hour both nights. And the days were filled with screaming. Why is she so sad? Im sorry for her, i don't know why she isn't happy. Can't bear to see her suffering. Took her to the GP and told him that if she is awake, she is either screaming, or feeding, or trying to feed but screaming around my nipple, latching off and arching back. When she does sleep it has to be in my arms. I put he rin the moses basket over and over again but she snaps awake and breaks her heart crying. The GP gave me Coleif and Nystan for oral thrush as he rmouth looked a bit white, but its only like that after a lot of milk. I cant use the Colief because it says to express a bit of BM and add it to that, but when i express nothing comes out. I have just made up a bottle of Aptamil hungry and am on the verge of quitting BF altogether. Im just destroyed and worn down.
So worried about my baby. She is unhappy and i can't fix it.

Also, i can't co-sleep as my DH usually has a can of lager or 2 or a couple of glasses of wine when he has his dinner and this forbiddden with co-sleeping.
At wits end and am going to drive DH away with al the weeping and shouting soon.

SleepyCaz...what a hard time you are having.

There seems to be nothing actually wrong with your baby - it is normal for babies to show by their behaviour they want to be close, and to sleep close, to their mothers. It is easier to change your lifestyle and your expectations than to change a 3.5 week old baby's normal needs.

I doubt thrush is an issue, or colic, for that matter. If she doesn't suffer when she is fed and held as much as she wants, then there is nothing the doc can do, because the baby is not ill or unhappy...

But you do need help and support with a baby like this. If your DH is not prepared to avoid alcohol during this period (and ask him - it would be something good he could do to help) then perhaps he could sleep elsewhere while you co-sleep.

The words you use - 'destroyed' and 'worn down' - make me see how low you are, and how this may be more than a feeding 'thing'...can you talk to your HV about your feelings?

You desparetely need sleep and support.

Thank you. I will try. Am at the "fighting al the time with DH" stage now.

Has anyone mentioned silent reflux to you?

My dd was like this for weeks - feeding pulling off and arching back then feeding more. She only slept when she was too exhausted to continue. She fed to ease the acid that was burning her throat - hence the back arching.

It's utterly exhausting and pretty much caused me to stop bf. Sleep deprivation is awful so you have my sympathy.