Please help. Desperate to BF but so many problems & I can't stop crying.

[LuluLulabelle]

My baby is 3 and a half weeks old. I intended to exclusively BF but after a traumatic birth and on advice of a midwife I let her have a bottle feed at night. My husband would give it to her and let me sleep. In trying to be kind to me and let me sleep he extended it so that she was getting bottles until about 3am. This has affected my milk supply at night and also her latching I think.

I told the midwife that Olivia made clicking noises when she fed and I was worried she wasn't on right. The midwife told me it was just the noise of her drinking but I now know this isn't true and her latch is wrong. She's had 3 weeks of all of this and now she cries from late afternoon through the night because I just don't seem to have the milk for her. DH ends up giving her a bottle and we're back to square one.

I found a breastfeeding counsellor who really helped but has said no more bottles to get my milk back but how I can I see Olivia go hungry?

I can't get her to latch like the counsellor did so we're back to the clicking and she falls asleep before she gets full so gets uspet once I stop. Feeding at night takes hours and I end up crying and just wanting to walk out of the house and be alone (I don't do it).

DH is struggling to look after both of us now and is exhausted and I can't seem to get Olivia to sleep in her moses basket at night now probably because she is hungry.

Is it too late to get this all sorted out? I desperately want to breastfeed exclusvely and feel so guilty that I didn't trust my instincts in the earlier weeks.

Any advice would be very much appreciated because i feel like I am failing at everything.

Lulu xxx

What wonderful news I am so happy for you, enjoy the cuddles and I hope you have a relaxing weekend (gorgeous name by the name)

That's great news! I was thinking of you and hoping you'd have a good night.

It's maybe worth having a look at www.kellymom.com and similar about growth spurts and frequent feeding to arm yourself with information for when you do have a few frantic days and night. It can really dent your confidence (especially at 3am!) and it's good to know at the back of your mind this is normal!

I think a bednest sounds like a good idea. I'd definitely try one if I did it all again.

lululabelle - i agree with tryharder - ignore anyone who tells you not to cuddle your tiny only 3 week old baby, pick her up hold her as much as you and she wants to! Get a baby sling it that helps - it did me - i got the same advice and feeling low beacuse of the lack of sleep you think any advice must be right - but the best bit was from my midwife who said - you are the expert on your child - do what you feel is right, no one can tell you better what you need to do!

I had a terrible time initially feeding - the first six weeks are by far the hardest as it takes that long for your milk supply to really kick in. I cried buckets and felt like a failure - but I stuck at it with the help of the local breast feeding support group - sounds odd I know but it was really a coffee morning and opportunity to ask the HV and other mums about BF and realise that its ok and it will get so much easier - STICK AT IT you will be glad you did.

to increase my milk i expressed after each feed for a few days - it was tiring but worth it in the end and had milk stored to offer in a bottle - in theory - but my little one was tongue tied so could not hold a bottle in her mouth - breast feeding was the only option.

On the sofa with the TV on in the middle of the night was more comfortable and relaxing for us both, never really got comfy in bed expect feeding lying down.

Good luck, it really really does get better - I fed up to her 1st birthday in the end!

Thanks everyone, I can't believe how supportive people are on here (well, most! )

lulus, it is so reassuring to know that other people have similar experiences thank you. I guess I expected to have it mastered by now and if it wasn't fixed by 6 weeks then all was lost.

Shonaspurtle, I will have a look at kellymom.com. Knowing what to expect might make the tough times easier.

xx

your welcome! hope you having a good feeding day - and try to sleep when the baby sleeps - ignore the house work it will still be there later, your rest is more important!

Good morning all,

I am looking for some more advice please. Yesterday didn't go so well. Olivia fed pretty much all day and hardly slept at all. By early evening she was frantic and was pulling at my nipple and shaking her head when feeding.

I last fed her at 9pm (much calmer by then) and mum took her to settle her while I slept. The next thing I knew it was 5am, my boobs were really hard and I panicked that something had happened to Olivia. I went in to my mums room and she'd given her 2 bottles in the night (1am and 3am) and let her sleep to let me catch up on my sleep.

So I am back to guilt this morning, it was lovely to get some sleep but I just feel like I need to pick one thing and stick with it.

My nipples are really sore today after yesterdays feeding-marathon.

Is it possible that if she's not latching well she isn't getting enough milk at each feed so wakes up hungry again soon?

I watched the DVD's the BF counsellor gave me and while they're really good I just felt awful afterwards because I am doing everything wrong. When I try to do it like the dvd Olivia doesn't latch on well and ends up crying.

I am going to stick with BF to at least 6 weeks to see if it improves but right now I just feel like I can't get it right.

Hi Lulu

Firstly please don't feel guilty. If you don't want Olivia to ahve any formula then I think you need to get rid of it - totally out of the house. You also need to tell you mum that you are going to feed Olivia and under no circumatances must she give Olivia a bottle without your permission.

Do you have any Lansinoh? it is great for your nipple and helps them heal. After each feed if you put a little milk on your nipple and allow it to dry it also helps.

All I can suggest with the latch (and Tiktok can tell me off if I've got it wrong) Have you tried the 'nose to nipple' when latching? if you put your nipple to baby's nose when she is hungry then she should tilt her head back and open her mouth. With how frequenlt she is feeding babies have tiny tummys and breastmilk is more rapidly digested than formula so with breastmilk she will go shorter between than with formula.

Keep going it is worth it in the long run for both of you.
{{{hugs}}}

lulululabelle, your mum wanted to help you, but this was not a good thing she did. Going all night without feeding leaves you feeling very uncomfortable, and you might have been v. unlucky and developed mastitis (breast inflammation - painful and can lead to its own complications if you are even more unlucky). She needs to be told not to do this.

The reason your baby is waking and feeding often is in order to ensure you make milk - that's how the baby 'orders up' the supply - like a fastfood restaurant coping with a rush at lunchtime, you don't run out of milk, you just make it more quickly! This is exactly how it works, believe me!

There may be times she gets a bit frustrated, but your body will be working hard and any formula she gets means you make less milk - another reason why going overnight without feeding is not good.

Guilt is pointless - it's not your fault you are facing these difficulties, and you are doing your very best to overcome them.

I am not sure if you have tried biological nurturing positions, in which Olivia will take the lead in attaching herself. Worth googling.

'Nose to nipple' is not something that can be explained clearly - and not something I suggest mothers do for that reason. The nose does not point at the nipple, really, and if the baby has her mouth open even a little bit when you try this position it really doesnt work...however, it can be a way of ensuring the nipple enters the top part of the mouth, which avoids soreness because the tongue does not get in the way.

Yes, treatment for the soreness is a good idea.

If you can hang on in there, and get your mum to help in ways which don't undermine you, you will get through

Bumping for you. It is quite common to feed all day in the early weeks as you go through one growth spurt after another, so it doesn't necessarily mean that she isn't getting enough if she feeds all day. Plus her tummy is still tiny (about the size of a walnut I think) so she can't take enough milk to keep going for a long time between feeds.

FWIW we never really got the latch "right" either, but if it works for you, isn't painful and she's swallowing then it doesn't have to be absolutely textbook imo (still feeding here at 21 wks ).

I know your mum means well but it's very undermining for her to give formula without you knowing about it, particularly as she's risking your supply and you getting mastitis. I agree re getting the formula out of the house - it doesn't sound as though you need it and it's just causing more problems.

You are doing brilliantly

LuluLulabelle, just to let you know it took me weeks to get bfing properly sorted out with DD1. I remember being out with my sister and BIL when DD1 was 10 weeks old and managing to feed her out in public with no soreness or bleeding and that was when I felt I had it sorted. And I fed her till she was one. I don't want to discourage you, more to make you feel that Yes, you CAN sort this out and you WILL.

One thing I found made my positioning better was to aim my nipple at the roof of my baby's mouth when she was latching on, rather than into the back of her mouth, IYKWIM. I appreciate, though, that describing what I did may be of little or no help to you.

Hope it all goes well, and we'll keep giving you the support we need right here.

oopsRonanOGarascoconuts, Tiktok, anglepoise & Poledra thank you so much for posting.

My mum has said this morning that she didn't tell me what she planned to do because she knew I would worry about the impact on BF. I have told her that I am grateful that she let me sleep and its time that Olivia was in the room with me all night. Its lovely of her to try and give me a break but I'll be back to real life soon and I have to find my way.

So tonight she is in with me all night and I will be feeding her myself. She went from 9pm to 1am before feeding again so I feel happy that she is getting enough food from me.

Tiktok, I will look at biological nursing positions. The nipple to nose thing is hard (I was told to angle it towards her nose and then let her top lip come over it - its hard though because she tends not to really open her mouth wide or tilt her head back - or at least I don't spot these).

As for yesterday's feeding frenzy, my mum thinks Olivia had wind so it might have been me misinterpreting her cues. She is much calmer today, still quite windy but napping and feeding much better.

Anglepoise, thank you for letting me know that you never felt you mastered the latching but things still worked out. If thats how I end up and she's happy and well then I can cope with that. I have some Lansinoh but only used it in the first week. I'll start using it again.

Thanks again everyone.

Lulu xx

lulululabelle - if your baby wanted to feed a lot (the feeding frenzy) it's fine to feed her....don't feel by doing so you are misinterpreting wind.

Hope you have a good day and night

tikok, thank you so much for the biological nurtering advice. I tried it this afternoon and Olivia latched herself on and fed wonderfully until she fell asleep. I was able to rest on my back rather than sit (still very uncomfortable after the birth) and she can look at my while she feeds which is lovely.

One website said that babies lose this instinct at 6 weeks, do you think that will mean we won't be able to feed in this position then?

I am alone with Olivia today and have gone back to following my instincts with regards to her feeding and even though she has fed hourly since 3pm she has fed at each time so is obviously hungry.

I wish you could see how happy and content she is feeding like this (on my tummy, feet towards my right thigh) - well, I imagine you've seen it before but it is lovely!

Thank you!!x

lulululabelle - what a lovely post I am so glad you have found this way of feeding is helpful - it's something many bfcs suggest as it is a great way to get mum and baby close, and often having pain-free feeds

It works because it keys into important instinctive behaviour - babies 'know' what to do with regard to feeding, of course, and there are a number of technical, hormonal and physical reasons why these positions stimulate this knowledge.

I have not heard that the instinct ceases at 6 weeks - I have helped mothers with rather older babies do this for the first time, so it's not my experience that there is a cut-off. In any case, if a baby feeds like this, and it becomes normal, they will surely carry it on. Older babies feed in all sorts of positions, anyway By then, they know full well what to do.

So enjoy

Lulu - I am pleased you have had a good day withthe feeding - Biological nurturing is an amazing process and my DD (now 25weeks) still loves to wriggle up and feed in this position.

It sounds like you have had a lovely day with her lulu; I hope you have a good night and that your mum, although her intentions were good, lets you get on with things yourself. Good Luck

Re the wind, and misinterpreting things; my baby was very very windy for the first 10 weeks or so, and would often root around. I would try and feed him, but if it was wind, he would soon let me know by arching his back, pulling off and getting really upset when he got a mouthful of milk as all he wanted to do was suck. What I found helpful was to let him suck on my little finger (put it upside down so the fingertip is against the roof of the baby's mouth). Again, if it wasn't wind and was milk he was after, he would soon spit the finger out.

Now I'm jealous - I've just gone and read up on biological nurturing and I wish I'd known about that when DD1 was born. She was an em c-s and we had lots of trouble getting bfing going. BN sounds like it wold have been ideal for us .

And looking at the teeny tiny baby in the pictures makes me want another one (DD3 is only 7mos, though. And I promised DH I wouldn't want any more after her.....)

I'm really pleased for you lulu

My son is 16 weeks and still tries to get on using biological nurturing positions! He's pretty strong now, so can be really determined about it.

Your post was lovely. I'm so thrilled things are better for you.

Just to update you on our night last night.

Olivia was much more settled last night. I fed her at 9.30pm and settled her to bed then woke in a panic at 1.45am because she hadn't woken to feed, I actually woke my mum to ask if she'd sneakily bottle fed her in the night (she hadn't). I fed and cuddled her back to sleep and she slept again until 5am when she only really wanted a nappy change a cuddle until 6.30am when she woke up hungry.

So I fed her myself through the night but only twice. She seems very happy today so I am happy.

I will stop posting on this thread now, I know we'll have some problems down the line but you've all helped with my original issue through practical advice, sharing of your experiences and reassurance. I am very grateful. Its such a dramatic change in such a short amount of time!

Thanks again Lulu & Olivia xx

p.s.today is the first day I haven't cried for about a month- well, so far anyway!

wow - it sounds like you are doing brilliantly. My DS2 is 12 weeks and if he managed that I would be delighted!

I am so pleased for you both, but just to say, don't feel down-hearted if it seems to slide at times - they have good nights and bad nights (and days) no matter how you are feeding. When they have growth spurts or start teething and need to feed lots it can feel like you're back to square one, even when your LO is making fantastic progress - so don't worry if things ever feel like they are going awry, MN is always here for you!

Lovely

that's great lulu, and well done olivia