Please help. Desperate to BF but so many problems & I can't stop crying.

[LuluLulabelle]

My baby is 3 and a half weeks old. I intended to exclusively BF but after a traumatic birth and on advice of a midwife I let her have a bottle feed at night. My husband would give it to her and let me sleep. In trying to be kind to me and let me sleep he extended it so that she was getting bottles until about 3am. This has affected my milk supply at night and also her latching I think.

I told the midwife that Olivia made clicking noises when she fed and I was worried she wasn't on right. The midwife told me it was just the noise of her drinking but I now know this isn't true and her latch is wrong. She's had 3 weeks of all of this and now she cries from late afternoon through the night because I just don't seem to have the milk for her. DH ends up giving her a bottle and we're back to square one.

I found a breastfeeding counsellor who really helped but has said no more bottles to get my milk back but how I can I see Olivia go hungry?

I can't get her to latch like the counsellor did so we're back to the clicking and she falls asleep before she gets full so gets uspet once I stop. Feeding at night takes hours and I end up crying and just wanting to walk out of the house and be alone (I don't do it).

DH is struggling to look after both of us now and is exhausted and I can't seem to get Olivia to sleep in her moses basket at night now probably because she is hungry.

Is it too late to get this all sorted out? I desperately want to breastfeed exclusvely and feel so guilty that I didn't trust my instincts in the earlier weeks.

Any advice would be very much appreciated because i feel like I am failing at everything.

Lulu xxx

Oh, very helpful ABetaDad. Did you read the bit where she said she is desperate to BF exclusively and wants to get back to that? just because your wife decided to bottlefeed at 2 months doesn't make it right for everyone.

Haven't read all the thread but just seen a few bits about cuddling etc. Slings are a great way to keep your baby close to you - and feed them at the same time. We're still using them now and my dd is nearly 9 months, the pram is folded up and never used!! Also, lots of warm baths together are really realxing for you both and you can try feeding in the bath. We had terrible trouble with latching at first and had to use nipple shields - at 5 months dd finally fed without and we're still going. Good luck!! You can do it. Something that has really helped me more recently with the night waking/feeding is getting rid of the clock in the bedroom - then you don't stress about how long you've been asleep or awake and I seemed to be able to just go with the flow a lot more easily.

And on a more positive note - Lulu it sounds like you are doing brilliantly, I think you are doing exactly the right thing by listening to the experts and your own instincts, and I hope tonight goes well!

PS I'm another one who often shaped the nipple in the early days and I found it helped too. And having been a non-co-sleeper with DS1 I am rapidly getting into it with DS2 (just for ease) and it's soooooooo much easier. You can just lie there and flop a boob out - makes the night feeds far more bearable.

Also just wanted to say - at about three weeks my baby blues tears started and I thought I would never stop crying! I didn't even know why I was crying. It will pass! One day you will realise you have a handle on things a bit more and the next day a little more etc! Hope you have a good night tonight.

I didn't really co-sleep with either of mine. I found I couldn't sleep/relax if they were in the bed - if you want to (and your DP agrees) then just ignore anyone else. However, I did love breast feeding lying down of a night and they both remained a lot more settled that way. It is great, as you can leave the room in total darkness. It worked for me if I just lay down, we faced each other and I pulled the baby towards me. But obviously I realise that this may not be something you want to try just yet if you are worried about her latching on.

theyoungvisiter + SoupDragon

I have copied the relevant section of the OP original post and to which I specifically replied. I have bolded the most crucual phrases. DID YOU READ THE POST.

"I can't get her to latch like the counsellor did so we're back to the clicking and she falls asleep before she gets full so gets uspet once I stop. Feeding at night takes hours and I end up crying and just wanting to walk out of the house and be alone (I don't do it).

DH is struggling to look after both of us now and is exhausted and I can't seem to get Olivia to sleep in her moses basket at night now probably because she is hungry.

Is it too late to get this all sorted out? I desperately want to breastfeed exclusvely and feel so guilty that I didn't trust my instincts in the earlier weeks.

I conclude that the OP is feeling desperate enough to walk out ofthe house, she has a crying baby because she is hungry and I conclude the OP is feeling guilt for not breast feeding.

I mentioned my own wife's experience who was equally desperate. I have read this post to my wife and she agrees with it. She also reminded me of her own mother who gave her advice to give up fighting the losing battle to breast feed and move exclusively to bottle.

Stop jumping down my throat. I am thinking only of the OP and the baby.

Yes but Betadad you didn't bother to read the rest of the thread where Lulu said:

By LuluLulabelle on Thu 19-Feb-09 18:19:35

The counsellor told me that she thinks Olivia just wanted cuddles and was cluster feeding and it wasn't a supply problem.

Olivia has fed really well today, she's still clicking a bit but less than she was earlier this week and I can hear her gulping milk when she feeds so I feel happy that she's feeding.

By LuluLulabelle on Thu 19-Feb-09 18:45:15

On the positive side, she just fed from both breasts until she came off herself and I could hear big gulps. She hasn't cluster fed tonight (yet) or had her frantic time of crying (yet). Maybe I've turned a corner.

She also mentioned that she had decided not to top up tonight and in fact had gone to her mother's house where there was no formula.

Can you see why your post, posted just an hour after that comment, was particularly unhelpful and worrying?

Plus there is a general agreement on the Breast and Bottle topic to respect people's wishes on feeding and try to support them in whatever decision they make. I would not question your wife's decision to FF and try to undermine her - Lulu has said repeatedly that she wants to BF and phase out topups, so to say that her baby is hungry when you have no evidence of that - other than a crying baby which let's face it, the ALL do - is incredibly insensitive, especially when there are experts at hand in RL to assess whether her baby is in fact hungry or not.

Anyway, I'm sure Lulululabelle is perfectly capable of defending her own decisions so I will bow out now, but you should be aware that comments like this on a sensitive subject WILL get people's backs up.

The trouble is betadad, you didn't read her subsequent posts, which were much more positive.

lulu, you are doing a great job. It does get easier. You are both learning, and 3 weeks ago you hadn't even met your baby!

ABetaDad, take your trolling elsewhere, please.

When you come onto a forum, it's only manners to read the whole convo - it's daft to read the OP only. In addition, your directive, non-supportive judgmental tone is unkind and out of place.

Hi Lulu, Hope the evening is going okay.

My DD did cluster feeding in the evenings from 8pm until midnight and was in my arms the whole time. I carried her in my wrap sling constantly for the first month and it was only at about 6 weeks that she went into her moses basket but only once she has fed and cuddled until she was ready to be put down. She is now 6 months and still loves her cuddles but on her terms, she is still carried in the wrap and loves being close. She now goes to bed in her cot after her last feed. I felt like she needed to be close those first months. She didn't go to bed upstairs on her own until she was nearly 4 months - she slept in the siting room on me or in her basket. Your LO is suddenly in a big world with little or no control of her body by being close you are letting her know she is safe and loved. On the bath front - I never bathed DD alone at first we always bathed together, my DD loved being fed in the bath - the joy on her face when she discovered boobies in the bath was fantastic. Enjoy her and cuddle her as much as you need to she needs it too.

Hope tonight goes well.

Lulu
Can only repeat what others have said here: lots of skin-to-skin contact and cuddles, lots of rest and good food for yourself (that should be where Olivia's lovely daddy concentrates his efforts to support you both in these early months). Sounds like you are doing a good job.

Breastfeeding is such hard work in the early weeks and months, but is a wonderful way to bond with your LO, and it will get easier. I remember feeling as exhausted, sore and anxious as you with my DS1, but it sounds like you know what you want to do - breastfeed your child - and, with the right advice and support, you will achieve this.

I got through similar crises of confidence with help from my DH, mum and mumsnet, and you will too.

WRT cuddling, I totally agree with picking them up when they cry - that's your instinctive response, and it's hardwired in your brain for a reason. Go with your gut feeling - you won't be able to cuddle her all day long in a few years time, so enjoy it whilst you can.

tiktok

I read mumsnet on and off for a year before joining. I have repeatedly read stories from desperate women who were either unable to keep up with a hungry baby while breast feeding or who for one reason or another wanted to stop after 2 - 3 months but very clearly felt under pressure to continue.

I HAVE READ THREE WHOLE THREADS TONIGHT ON THIS VERY ISSUE.

I think it is just cruel to both baby and mother to put them under pressure to keep on breast feeding when it is clearly not working.

Surely a baby can be nourished by formula milk after it has had a decent amount of colostrum.

I am not a troll just because I sometimes disagree with you and others. I would never tell anyone to stop breast feeding who was happy to cntinue and in just the same way never tell anyone to stop bottle feeding or make them feel guilty about it.

A baby who is constantly hungry and a mother who is struggling to breast feed is a deeply distressing thing to contemplate and believe me I have watched it at first hand. Not everyone can do it successfully. Some can.

I hope the OP is successful in her desire to breast feed but if she cannot make it work and her baby is hungry and crying because it is hungry I do not think she should feel guilt.

That is all I am saying.

ABetaDad - I can sort of understand what you are saying - as a bystander in a situation where the woman you love is struggling to do something where an alternative solution is possible - it must be hard to watch her beat herself up.

But as a woman who has been through that situation, I didn't continue BFing because of "guilt", more because I had read the literature, knew that BF had loads of health benefits for me and my child, as well as being free, emotionally fulfilling for both of us, and more convenient than bottle feeding. Plus as other posters have commented on other threads, there was an element of "sticking it to the man" because I really dislike the way elements of parenting have become targets for multinationals (I used terry nappies for the same reason).

I think it is clear from the OPs comments that she too has already invested heavily emotionally and physically, and clearly wants to explore every possible avenue in terms of BFing before using formula.

Sometimes problems just can't be "fixed" with simple solutions.

"I would never tell anyone to stop breast feeding who was happy to cntinue"

In fact, yes you did. The OP wants to breast feed and you posted Give your baby a bottle.

"I hope the OP is successful in her desire to breast feed but if she cannot make it work and her baby is hungry and crying because it is hungry I do not think she should feel guilt. That's all I am saying."

But that is NOT what you were saying. What you actually said was: Give your baby a bottle - she is hungry and not getting a feed from you.

That's not helping to reduce the OP's guilt is it? Rather it's playing on increasing her guilt in order to persuade her to top up. It is not supportive, not true according to the RL experts who have assessed the situation, scaremongering and designed to make the OP feel worse rather than better.

If you had said "Good luck but if it doesn't work out or you continue to feel your baby is hungry then don't feel bad about giving her more formula" then no-one would have objected to your post. Of course no-one should feel bad about their feeding decisions - but I only see one person on this thread ordering Lulu around and making guilt-mongering statments...?

I am saying no more.

Lulu will make their own decision and I wish her and her baby well in whatever that is.

I am not here to upset or offend anyone.

Betadad - sorry if I sounded a bit narked - it sounds like your post was coming from a good place with the best intentions, that just wasn't very evident before you explained the backstory.

Lulu, sorry to hijack your thread with an argument robust discussion! Hope it's all going really well and you are tucked up in bed with your LO - I am off to bed myself now

theyoungvisiter - apologies from me too as I was probably a bit brief in my original post and glad the back story cleared it up.

Sorry to Lulu as well for hijacking the thread. Hope it all turns out well.

Hi Lulu, I've no expert advice to add but just wanted to show support and say just hang in there by the 3rd week it all feels such hard work and the sleep deprivation makes everything so much harder to deal with.

FWIW i've had no issues with BF but my DD cried on and off most evenings and through the night till she was about 7/8 weeks, she spent most of the evenings in our arms and I permenently had one boob out!! We also struggled to get her to settle on her own in her moses basket up to that point but she just wouldn't have it.

It all got a bit much and we decided to co-sleep around the same time. It was honestly one of the best decisions we have made she seemed to be much calmer and more settled through the night and that made the days much easier. I think our LO just needed to be close 24/7 in the early days. It took a while to master the whole latching on whilst lying down but it's soooo worth it as it makes BF at night is so much easier. I only wake briefly when she does to help latch her on (which is a total god send as she is 15 weeks and still wakes several times a night!!).

It sounds like your doing an amazing job, things do get easier, remember to take care of yourself in the mean time .

ABetaDad

I think your post on this thread is possibly one of the wankiest, plain ignorant, most undermining comments I've ever read on MN. Well done.

BF problems can be fixed. Just like many other challenges in life. If a person struggles in their career, degree, marriage or any other endeavour, is it helpful to tell them to quit, rather than attempt to help them overcome their challenges?

This mother asked for our help to succeed in bf. That is what she was receiving, practical help

And yes, it is worth breastfeeding instead of formula feeding, if that is what a mother wishes. The well evidenced and documented benefits are vast. Far, far beyond the colostrum stage and for months and years. Try searching for them, why don't you? I recall you posted some other misinformation recently about breastfeeding humans lactating like farm mammals, and tiktok corrected you. I won't presume to tell you how to milk a cow. Please don't demonstrate such breathtaking arrogance as to tell a mother she isn't giving her baby enough milk and to give a bottle instead.

Your ignorance of bf is embarrasingly apparent to those who have taken the time to research the subject properly. For the love of God, please have the humility to research your facts before you post such an ignorant and undermining offering again.

"My wife decided to 100% bottle feed both after 2 months."

If she is happy with that then great. I think most posters here want only that mothers should be happy, and helped to achieve whatever their informed choices are. BF or FF. Either.

But IF she would have liked to have fed longer, but instead followed similar advice to that which you proffered here, then her bf may have been prematurely curtailed as a direct result of that awful, awful 'advice'.

Do you understand how supply and demand works with breastfeeding?

vlc, thanks for reminding me - yes, it was ABetaDad who posted something about his experience with lactating farm animals, which experienced he then used in order to say something incorrect about human females.

A quick search on his name shows knowing nothing about a topic does not inhibit him from sharing 'facts' about it, or indeed, telling other people what to do...as indeed he has done here!

I apologise for calling you a troll, ABetaDad. You are not deliberately posting to cause a reaction or to stir things up - you're just dogmatic and tactless, and it's good you apologised

Stick around. Read. Learn. Resist the urge to post sometimes. Try not to tell people what to do and what not to do. This will spread a bit of happiness

Your DH sounds really supportive. Go to bed with your baby for at least one whole day. Feed her everytime she squeaks and that should help boost your milk. Babies cry loads at a few weeks old. If you can make it to 6 - 7 weeks it gets soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much easier.

No answers but I hope you're getting those, bookmarking because I want to read this thread later when I'm less sleepy. Also struggling with feeding of ds2 and establishing feeding/his growth - he's 17 days old tonight.

Good morning everyone,

it seems I missed a fair bit having an early night!

Abetadad, thank you for taking the time to post. I can see how my first post led you to comment the way you did - many of my friends and family have said the same things ("its not worth all this upset" or "it shouldn't be this hard, just give her a bottle") but to me it is worth it. I am far from being an expert on breastfeeding and I need to know I have tried everything before I give up. I am not perservering out of guilt but because of the benefits to my baby and because I enjoy that time with her.

If i genuinely think my baby is hungry I do supplement with formula but she usually takes very little and the counsellor yesterday made me see that she isn't actually going hungry - it was just my interpretation of her constant feeding and upset.

Most of my parent-friends switched to formula early on and it suits them so I don't judge them for it - they're doing what they feel best and surely thats the best any parent can do. For me and my baby I choose breastfeeding. I just needed advice from mums who knew more than me which is why I posted on here.

Thank you to all you mums who defended my post, I am very grateful.

We had a much better night last night. She slept happily in her basket until 4.45am - feeding well a couple of times in the night. She wouldn't settle at 3am and my mum wanted to top her up with formula (she was prepared!) but by the time she'd faffed with bottles and formula I'd fed her again and she'd fallen asleep which I was glad about.

At 5am she fed and then fell asleep in bed with me. I didn't sleep well though because I was worried about her position or the covers falling on her etc. However, Olivia settled brilliantly and slept for almost 3 hours next to me.

We have a memory foam mattress at home though so I don't think we can continue it when I get back but I did buy a bednest so I think I will use that instead of the basket.

With regard to the latching, she seems to be correcting this herself. I don't really have to do much (except like you say Dreamingaboutsleep - when lying down, but am happy to practice).

Thank you all so much for yor support & advice, it really has helped me & my baby so much.

Lulu xxx

Great news, good luck and hope things continue to improve.