Please help. Desperate to BF but so many problems & I can't stop crying.

[LuluLulabelle]

My baby is 3 and a half weeks old. I intended to exclusively BF but after a traumatic birth and on advice of a midwife I let her have a bottle feed at night. My husband would give it to her and let me sleep. In trying to be kind to me and let me sleep he extended it so that she was getting bottles until about 3am. This has affected my milk supply at night and also her latching I think.

I told the midwife that Olivia made clicking noises when she fed and I was worried she wasn't on right. The midwife told me it was just the noise of her drinking but I now know this isn't true and her latch is wrong. She's had 3 weeks of all of this and now she cries from late afternoon through the night because I just don't seem to have the milk for her. DH ends up giving her a bottle and we're back to square one.

I found a breastfeeding counsellor who really helped but has said no more bottles to get my milk back but how I can I see Olivia go hungry?

I can't get her to latch like the counsellor did so we're back to the clicking and she falls asleep before she gets full so gets uspet once I stop. Feeding at night takes hours and I end up crying and just wanting to walk out of the house and be alone (I don't do it).

DH is struggling to look after both of us now and is exhausted and I can't seem to get Olivia to sleep in her moses basket at night now probably because she is hungry.

Is it too late to get this all sorted out? I desperately want to breastfeed exclusvely and feel so guilty that I didn't trust my instincts in the earlier weeks.

Any advice would be very much appreciated because i feel like I am failing at everything.

Lulu xxx

Good to see you are getting some excellent counter-MIL stuff

As for what happened last night - you fed her up to midnight, your DH finally gave 4 oz of formula after trying to settle her for two hours...it would have been fine to feed her again, to co-sleep with her (following the safe rules), and to have skipped the formula. No need to feel bad she had that formula but if the scenario happens again, simply putting her to the breast again is ok to do.

sorry you're having such a hard time lulu, and i hope that things improve. I think you need to keep trying the NCT or LLL or ABM to try and get a counsellor for some one to one support in dropping the formula feeds.

Re the holding and cuddling; babies this young don't know that they are separate beings from you yet, so holding them is a good way of settling them and calming them down; the proximity to your heartbeat is a good positive experience for them. It isn't going to spoil them or make a rod for your own back. Skin to skin is the best way of fixing little BF problems and even at 15 weeks I still do lots of skin to skin with my DS if he is in any way unsettled or not feeding; it calms him right down and helps him latch. There is a scientific reason for it I'm sure, but can't think what it is right now.

As others have said though, 3 weeks is a hellish time of growth spurts and emotional rollercoasters. It does pass and things will seem less bleak once it does. But it's important that you can access some good local help.

completely agree helms, if my DD is anything to go by, cuddles are directly proportional to confidence!

lol, I cross posted with loads of posters there, including tiktok re the science bit

I can't offer advice on breastfeeding other than say 3 weeks really is the hellish point. Tik tok and others can give you better advice on that front.

On the cuddling front PLEASE ignore anyone (friends, books) that stop you from doing what you FEEL is right. You are tuned into your infant's needs if it feels right it probably is, if you want to cuddle all day please do so because that is what babies and new mothers are designed to do.

You have my every sympathy, as I was in the same boat ith my dd...

If I had to do it again I would have made sure I expressed enough milk to feed her without resorting to formula. Then you just have the probelm of switching to breast only rather than tryng to build up your supply.

What nonsense, suggesting a baby is spoiled or will forever be clingy if you cuddle it "too much". My DD never lay down on her own for 6 WEEKS but thereafter has turned into the most incredibly independant little girl you could ever meet. Not much chance for cuddles now! I think the sling is the perfect solution, letting you get on with things and reassuring your baby that you are always there. There was a thread a long time ago about african women who thought NOT carrying your baby around all the time but leaving them in a pram etc. was akin to child abuse!

I think it´s a fact that as the day draws on the body produces milk more slowly and this is frustrating for the baby. I think my dd was well aware that she could be satiated immediately with her bottle and screamed for it rather than "work" at the breast.

I hope the bf counsellor helps, I know mine was absolutely wonderful!

Sorry not really advice as Tiktok and others obviously best for that but just to show support.

DS1 kept losing weight despite seemingly to be feeding OK (had the world and his wife checking his latching etc..) I had the same worries that I wasn't producing enough milk as he was so unsettled at evening/night and so on advice we started with 1 bottle of formula. Unfortunately it seemed to be a bit of a downward spiral from there and I didn't BF as long as I had wanted. I wish I'd had the advice and support on MN to keep going and to withdraw the formula slowly once his weight settled.

Having had DS2 (who fed well and put on weight straight away) I now realise those unsettled evenings/nights are normal and not necessarily signs of a hungry baby! DS2 also would not sleep in moses basket (or anywhere apart from on me) for at least 6-8 weeks.

Good luck with it all and enjoy the cuddles!

Yes, knickers to MIL & Co re holding too much! I too had the "rod for your own back" comments from MIL (silly bitch! )

I cuddled and cuddled and CUDDLED BabyG for weeks. Literally. I felt like I always had a breast out and he was always in my arms. As he's got older (the grand old age of 15 weeks!) he's wanted cuddling less and less and will now happily lay on the floor (poor lil mite) or in his pram, or chair thing for ages - in fact, I often pick him up before he wants picking up because my arms feel a bit empty!

Keep posting, you'll get such a lot of positive support on here, as I did.

oh, the cuddling...I'm getting broody just thinking about it. I used to cuddle DD all day; it was lovely

Another one to testify that unsettled doesn't necessarily mean hungry.

Ds fed roughly every three hours from birth, put weight on with no problems and I had an (over)abundance of milk which caused me quite a lot of trouble, but that's neither here nor there.

Anyway, at a couple of weeks old ds was really unsettled in the evenings and I can well remember pacing the floor at night trying to get him back to sleep. Oh, and he didn't really ever sleep in his moses basket, mainly on me or dh (I watched a lot of telly ).

I was also told rod-for-your-own-back, but guess what, that turned out to be rubbish, Dh & I both agree that we wasted way too much time trying to settle him in his moses basket in those early days when we could have been enjoying some precious sleeeeep by going with the flow. By 8 weeks he was much more settled and sleeping on his own.

I'm a bit of a sleep monster and I spent the first few weeks after dh went back to work with the following morning routine:

Feed, go back to bed with ds, feed change, go back to bed with ds...repeat until you have an appointment or feel the need to get up.

I felt that I just went onto a 24hr schedule until ds got his days and nights sorted out and it was much easier to fit in with him. I realise I'm lucky in that I find it easy to sleep during the day though (and that ds was my first child).

I hope you get the bf support you need in real life, it does sound like you should be able to get back to the excl bf you want with support. In the meantime please cuddle your dd as much as you like!

Hi LuluLulaBelle,
Can;t offer any expert advice here as due to serious issues at birth, unfortunately I stopped bf so first of all, good on you! You've showing love and determiniation to do what you feel is right for you and baby and no one can expect more of you than that. Totally support the first few weeks comment, I can't believe how many conversations with my friends I've had on 'remember the first 6 weeks, what on earth were we doing? ! Two close friends are bfs and one did co-sleeping and sling, the other had baby in a cot from very young, both with varying amounts of cuddles (in fact extremes of attachment and gina ford!) so trust yourself and what feels right. You'll get advice on cuddling, sleeping, burping, dressing, feeding, blowing your own nose frankly! If you were anything like me, there will be times you really want someone to tell you exactly what to do! But really, it does all come together and sounds like you've got everything that baby needs! Try again with NCT, it's helped many friends of mine and 3 weeks is certainly no where near too late. BTW get those cuddles whilst you can, before you know it, there are tearing around at such a rate, you're lucky if they stand still for 3 seconds

How did your meeting with the breast councellor go today?

Hi Susie100, it went well I think. She didn't check my latch again but gave me lots of reassurance.

I was mistaken earlier, she only had 1oz of formula last night off DH so I am happy to stop it altogether and just BF tonight.

The counsellor told me that she thinks Olivia just wanted cuddles and was cluster feeding and it wasn't a supply problem.

Olivia has fed really well today, she's still clicking a bit but less than she was earlier this week and I can hear her gulping milk when she feeds so I feel happy that she's feeding. The counsellor said that I shouldn't shape my nipple to get it in her mouth, that she'd find it herself but I have found that this helps her to latch well so I have gone back to doing it.

She gave me 2 DVD's on breastfeeding to borrow: Baby-led breastfeeding - The Mother-Baby Dance and Follow Me Mum - The key to successful breast feeding.

She also suggested we bathe together so I am going to try that with the help of my mum later (I've gone to stay with her for a couple of days while DH gets the house in order).

I can't believe how much support and advice I have had from you all. You're all so kind - DH and I are really grateful.

On the cuddling, I am definately going to do it and relax. Gina Ford regimes just don't feel right for us.

I will post on the sleeping forum about co-sleeping. DH likes the idea but I don't know anyone who's done it and just need some more info. Having said that I will probably try it tonight if she doesn't settle.

Thanks again and I will keep you posted on our progress.

Lulu xxx

lulululabelle - all that sounds great. You sound as if your confidence is growing, and that will be a huge help

I hope so Tiktok although I am starting to worry about being able to feed her tonight as I haven't brought any bottles or formula to my mums and my house is two hours away.

On the positive side, she just fed from both breasts until she came off herself and I could hear big gulps. She hasn't cluster fed tonight (yet) or had her frantic time of crying (yet). Maybe I've turned a corner but I will call NCT tomorrow anyway just to keep getting the support until I feel like I know what I am doing.

Thanks again.

Lulu xxx

I did quasi-co-sleeping with ds (my second, much better at self-settling and sleeping than dd incidentally). I had a bedside crib which had a drop down side so he was at the same level as the bed but it just felt like we had more room to move around.

You sound so much more positive lulu.

Lots of skin to skin and relaxation tonight and keep putting her on the breast if she is hungry.

Good Luck

Oh, and I've also got a sidecar cot, so DS is right next to me and I can respond to his cries very quickly without getting out of bed, but it felt safer to me than proper so-sleeping. We didn't bother with a fancy expensive cot either; just bought a cheap IKEA one which matches up with the height of our bed.

You sound as if you are doing brilliantly.
I also found those first few weeks nightmarish - traumatic delivery, the painful feeds, the "4 o'clock screamers" as we used to call it, the growth spurts and the worry that the baby is getting enough BM and that you are "doing it right". Not to mention the oh so helpful advice from MIL types, grrr. (IGNORE the silly woman.)

It does get better, and cuddle as much as you can would be my advice too! In the blink of an eye they're running through the school gates with barely a backward glance

Good luck

The clicking could be down to tongue-tie - it's really common but very rarely picked up by any health people apparently. My son wasn't diagnosed until 11 weeks when breastfeeding had become complete agony - even then it wasn't the GP or health visitor I'd been to see about it but a midwife at a special breastfeeding clinic.

He had it snipped (which was far more traumatic for me than for him!) - which lots of places won't do, but there is a great doctor here in London who will always do it if you're having problems breastfeeding because of it - another one in bournemouth or southampton i think.

As for cuddles and carrying - absolutely the more you do the happier and more confident your baby will be - I reckon anyway - I think it works completely the opposite way than people assume - if babies feel safe all the time then they have the confidence to try new things and enjoy new people. (I'm no expert by the way - my three and a half month old is my first baby and it took me a good two months to stop crying!)

Just wanted to say good luck, we've all been there and (just about!) survived. The crying is v normal esp given the hormones/sleep deprivation/high emotions. In my first week I was convinced I had a milk supply problem because my breasts were soft again after the milk initially came in and made them all rock-like. Of course there were invisible reserves - as the NCT helpline helped me understand! - but breastfeeding is all just so new and you can't 'learn' it in advance, don't underestimate the challenge of it! FWIW I've now managed to breastfeed almost exclusively for 6 months now after a shakey start.

Hang in there and trust your instincts. And of course, you can't have too many cuddles. We switched to a routine approach much later, at 2.5 months and DD was very able to settle herself and slept v well... until teething struck that is!

Off to the teething threads to pick up advice on that now...

Good luck tonight Lulu x

Give your baby a bottle - she is hungry and not getting a feed from you. Why oh why do women get so much pressure to breast feed.

Its about a healthy baby you want not living up to some social norm or pressure group's wishes.

My wife decided to 100% bottle feed both after 2 months. Stop feeling guilt and stress.

Have you actually read the thread?

Lulu, sounds as though you're doing brilliantly and glad MN could help

Betadad what a stupid crass thing to say - the OP's baby IS getting a feed from her, she has just given her one. You have absolutely no knowledge of the situation so comments like "she's hungry" are not only unhelpful, they are probably untrue as well.

Plus the OP has not asked for your advice about whether or not to FF, she has asked advice on how to phase out topups, if possible.

I suggest you think a bit more before you post such unhelpful comments next time.